The Future of Battery Electric Vehicles (and I don't like them)

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Frankenchevy

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I will agree that some of the points in the article are certainly biased, but I don't think many of them qualify as "fallacies". I will also agree that EVs have a place in modern society, but it is not the ICE replacement we're being lead to believe.

I do not own an electric vehicle, obviously, so I cannot speak to range anxiety, charging costs, expenses, or "gimmick" feelings, but I do appreciate many of the points that hit close to home. In no particular order, here are some of them.

#11 Cold temperature issues -

This is real. My neighbor across the street has a Tesla Model 3 and a Nissan Leaf. While he does drive the Tesla in the winter months, the Leaf is homebound for 5 to 6 months every winter. He said that it doesn't have enough range during the cold months. I don't recall the quantitative range value, but the thing doesn't leave his garage/driveway. To me, this is unacceptable from a car in Minnesota, Canada, or any northern state. It's like having a summertime hot rod, except it's not cool. Before he bought the Tesla, his Toyota Matrix would handle his winter driving needs.

#13 Repairs are difficult -

I have mechanic friends who don't mess with EVs either. I expect vehicles to last well beyond 100K miles, and eventually the EVs will need work even if it's many miles down the road. They must be repairable, even if that comes well after the 100K mile mark. Conforming vehicles to our modern throw away society is problematic for future recycling concerns.

#15 They are not all that environmentally friendly -
The ecological impact of mining the minerals necessary for lithium batteries does cause environmental harm. The Biden administration recently cancelled federal mining leases along the exterior of the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (BWCAW) in northern MN. If you ever get the chance to visit the BWCAW, I highly recommend it. The proposed mine was intended to extract copper and nickel, with some cobalt and other minerals. The argument was if the toxic tailings from the mine ever escaped from their open storage pits, they would travel downstream to the BWCAW. This is unacceptable because the BWCAW is one of relatively few places in the country where you can still safely drink the water straight from the lakes. It was a classic case of "Not in my back yard!" The greenies want their electric vehicles and charging stations, but they won't support the mines to acquire the precious minerals. Instead, poor countries in Asia and Africa can become the wastelands.

#2 For most families a battery-electric vehicle cannot be the only car in the household
This may not be a concern to you or I, or many of the other multi-square owning members here, but it is very real in our quickly urbanizing country. My brother recently bought a town house, and more recently bought a pickup (unfortunately not a square, but still a Chevy at least). He doesn't have room at his town house for more than one vehicle, so his commuter Focus was traded in on the truck. An EV would certainly not work for his needs because he does regularly have business outside of the immediate metro area.
On the repair issue, these things have been proven to last far beyond 100k. The Tesla batteries don’t begin to degrade until 300,000-500,000 miles. Maybe not the cheapy Leafs or the Chevy bolts that like to burst into flames. Other than that, it’s normal car stuff like bushings and ball joints.

I feel for your brother in a condo. Some folks like it, but I couldn’t survive without land. My wife and I have thought about how little we could live on, as we look at properties in other places. We’re just not willing to do less than 20 usable acres. We prefer 100+
 

fast 99

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EV plane for biden yep !!
Maybe it will die like my Milwaukee drill
Know you meant that in jest but there are electric aircraft. They are smaller 2 seat aircraft used primarily for training. Reason they use them is less maintenance and operational costs. They can fly for a hour or 2, then be charged during ground school. There are lots of reasons why an electric large commercial plane will never work. A big one is the plane doesn't decrease weight during flight.
 

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I've heard (don't know how true it is) that if the batteries have to be replaced it's in the $15,000 range. Nothing on my 3 "gas guzzlers" is even close to that.
 

t44e6

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Like so many other facets of technology and economics, the stated justification is usually coupled to the desire for more control somehow. Electric vehicles limit the ability to travel long distances at will. They are more easily monitored and will probably end up with remote disabling features to allow punishment of wrongthink or force compliance with such things as jab mandates, especially if we end up with digital currency. It's not really about saving the planet. and without dramatic upgrades to the electrical grid we are not going to be able to keep up with demand. California already struggles if too many people run their a/c. And think about this...was the transfer of much of the west's manufacturing base to China and Asia just to take advantage of cheap labor? Or was it as much to make the West dependent on a remote source or was it to make China totally dependent on Western money?
 

Rumbledawg

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first off, i'm not a lefty, or a righty, hate all gov whether your a con or libby-too many people get stupid when it comes to politics, and ain't interested in debating which leader is the biggest *****.
what i can't understand is why everyone is so down on ev's. if ya don't like 'em, don't buy 'em.
pretty much every thing in that article is wrong or biased.
ev's have been making big strides in the last few yrs. guys talk about range or cold weather? i call bull$hit. i have seen many times teslas and other ev's on the Coquihalla hiway, a snow covered 400 mile highway- all times of the year and their doing fine. acceleration? hate to say, but ice engines are slugs next to an ev, and all the ice lovers know deep down it's true.
charging stations? there starting to pop up everywhere, 120 yrs ago electric and steam cars were the rage, there wasn't no gas stations at every corner- the charging stations will come where they will soon be on every corner like a gas station.
always hearing about mining for lithium, well the amount of minerals they have to mine for an ice car far outstrips the little bit for lithium battery's by a huge margin, again i call bs.
and yes, there are electric planes, i have personally seen one fly.
power generation for ev's does need work in some places. where i live we have nothing bout mountains and rivers- free electricity, and no, you don't need to dam, we have what's called "run of the river" hydro generating. they literally just put a pipe into the creek, divert a portion of the water into it to turn turbines then pipe it back into the creek further downstream-clean, efficent, cheap, reliable, and completely renewable.
people need to think about the long term, hell you think cowboys wanted to trade their trusted horses for some new fangled otto-mobile contraption 100 yrs ago?
what ice owners need to do is cheer on people buying ev's, cause in the long term it will leave more gas for us people that drive 6-7 mpg trucks...
 

Frankenchevy

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first off, i'm not a lefty, or a righty, hate all gov whether your a con or libby-too many people get stupid when it comes to politics, and ain't interested in debating which leader is the biggest *****.
what i can't understand is why everyone is so down on ev's. if ya don't like 'em, don't buy 'em.
pretty much every thing in that article is wrong or biased.
ev's have been making big strides in the last few yrs. guys talk about range or cold weather? i call bull$hit. i have seen many times teslas and other ev's on the Coquihalla hiway, a snow covered 400 mile highway- all times of the year and their doing fine. acceleration? hate to say, but ice engines are slugs next to an ev, and all the ice lovers know deep down it's true.
charging stations? there starting to pop up everywhere, 120 yrs ago electric and steam cars were the rage, there wasn't no gas stations at every corner- the charging stations will come where they will soon be on every corner like a gas station.
always hearing about mining for lithium, well the amount of minerals they have to mine for an ice car far outstrips the little bit for lithium battery's by a huge margin, again i call bs.
and yes, there are electric planes, i have personally seen one fly.
power generation for ev's does need work in some places. where i live we have nothing bout mountains and rivers- free electricity, and no, you don't need to dam, we have what's called "run of the river" hydro generating. they literally just put a pipe into the creek, divert a portion of the water into it to turn turbines then pipe it back into the creek further downstream-clean, efficent, cheap, reliable, and completely renewable.
people need to think about the long term, hell you think cowboys wanted to trade their trusted horses for some new fangled otto-mobile contraption 100 yrs ago?
what ice owners need to do is cheer on people buying ev's, cause in the long term it will leave more gas for us people that drive 6-7 mpg trucks...
There is some truth to the extreme cold impacting range. The coldest I’ve driven in was the teens(F) and it wasn’t noticeably impacted. It has to be fairly cold to see much of a hit.

One thing I do notice. If the battery is very cold, for the first 5-10 miles regen isn’t as strong until the pack warms up.
 

Frankenchevy

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One point many fail to think about when talking about charging time. I’ve only had to charge away from home a handful of times. My car tops up it’s charge at night while I sleep. Most people have to get gas once every week or two. All those 5 minute stops add up to far more time than I’ve ever waited while charging. If you go to Costco like we do, that ends up being 15 minutes or more most of the time.
 

scrap--metal

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Biased opinions countering biased opinions from the article. I'm not going to deny that many of the points made in the article are biased, but many are not, which is why I decided to share it in the first place. In all honesty, I really prefer the end of the article over the 19 "ownership factors" that are listed. The numbers at the end of the article regarding natural resources are far less opinionated.

guys talk about range or cold weather? i call bull$hit.

This is not BS. My neighbor across the street just started driving his Nissan Leaf this past weekend. It was the first time it's left his property since last fall. I'm sure Teslas can make it through snowy mountain passes, but their battery range does take a hit. That's a fact.
 

Bextreme04

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Biased opinions countering biased opinions from the article. I'm not going to deny that many of the points made in the article are biased, but many are not, which is why I decided to share it in the first place. In all honesty, I really prefer the end of the article over the 19 "ownership factors" that are listed. The numbers at the end of the article regarding natural resources are far less opinionated.



This is not BS. My neighbor across the street just started driving his Nissan Leaf this past weekend. It was the first time it's left his property since last fall. I'm sure Teslas can make it through snowy mountain passes, but their battery range does take a hit. That's a fact.
A nissan leaf has a 60 mile range on a full charge and a nice warm day. It has it's uses and that is for a short daily commute within a city. It is perfect for the use it was designed for, which obviously isn't what your buddy is using it for. I had a friend that used one to travel in to work and back home every day. That's all it was good for, it didn't have the range to take him to the next biggest city and back.

I will say that I read the article, recognized that the author obviously had ZERO technical knowledge of the subject, and then decided to just move on with my life. The people who are commenting that it is biased and not factually accurate are basing that on their own personal experience, not bullet points they read from fox news talking heads. Put down the tinfoil hats and listen to the people actually experiencing this. There are strengths and weaknesses to an EV. Its not all about saving the environment. Yes the technology has a long way to go. Gas engines have been going through the same progression and advancement for the last 100 years. This is just a first step. As battery technology improves, most of the limitations people are talking about will disappear. There will be adaptations made and solutions found for things like cold weather. It is the nature of the beast. Not everything is perfect for every situation.

My wife drives a 2011 Suburban every day. We put 40k miles on it in the last 2 years. 99% of that usage could have been handled by an EV as it was local short trips with just herself or 1-2 other people. The rest of the miles were longer family trips pulling a trailer on the highway... which is not a good use case for an EV.
 

fast 99

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5-minute video about electric car pollution from Prager U. There is a longer version that goes into greater detail.

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Rumbledawg

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people think lithium mining is bad for the enviroment?
check out how we DESTROY the land while pulling oil out of the land...kinda makes a little lithium mining pale in comparison
want to talk about loading up the air with carbon...
don't matter if your building electric or ice, cars and their fuels are dirty
some before and after oil production
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