Starter kicking back

[mtnmankev]

Pull #1 spark plug, put your thumb in the hole and have somebody quickly bump the switch.You will feel it when it starts compression. After a couple of quick key bumps building compression, look at the harmonic balancer and see where the mark is. It should be close to the tab on the timing cover. If it's nowhere near it, then it did slip. And I have also experienced them slipping. They are two pieces of metal with a rubber insert between the pieces, and as we all know, nothing lasts forever.
Keep us posted what you find .......

 

[silverscottsk10]

Rotate engine by hand
Watch the valves til both close and then take a pick and feel for top of piston
The valves correlate with the balancer for tdc

 

[mtnmankev]

Rotate engine by hand
Watch the valves til both close and then take a pick and feel for top of piston
The valves correlate with the balancer for tdc

Definitely the most accurate method. I prefer to do it that way.

I know some people don't want to remove the valve cover, so an alternate method would be to insert a clean wood dowel into #1 spark plug hole, pull #6 plug, and have a helper put their thumb over #6 hole. Turn the engine through by hand, and as the piston rises the dowel will move out of the hole, when it stops moving, you're at TDC. If your helper feels compression as the dowel is still rising, then you need to go one more full turn through so that #1 will be on compression. A tad complicated perhaps, but it works.

 

[HotRodPC]

Exactly. If you balancer has slipped there is no way to tell using that mark. SOOOOOOO, get #1 up on TDC and make your own mark on the balancer. Black marker, or what I like to use is White Out if you don't have a Parts Marker Paint Pen. It's really hard to know that you are EXACTLY at TDC with the heads on through a spark plug hole, so do keep in mind, you might be a 4-6 degrees off that way, but its going to be close enough to get you fired up, then tune by ear or trial and error. Like advance it as far as you can and back down as needed not to ping, or have vapor lock when it's warm. I drove mine for 2 years like that before I finally got involved enough to find out what the issue was for sure, and sure enough the balancer was junk.

 

[chengny]

How to use the timing mark on OD of balancer and it's relationship to the crankshaft snout keyway on the ID of the hub to tell if yours has slipped:

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This shows the different positions by year ranges:

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Yours should be the middle mark.


But, that's really not the issue is it?

You have the rotor directly in line with the #1 post on the distributor cap while the #1 piston is at TDC on compression, right? And the distributor is indexed basically as it always was - something like this?

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That's is all good. Did the gasket replacement go smoothly? Nothing fell down into the lifter valley or into the runners?

Also and I don't mean to insult, are you aware that two of the intake manifold bolts have to be shorter than the other 10. The ones highlighted in the image below are in line with pushrods for the #'s 4 & 5 exhaust valves. If the bolts in those spots are too long, when torqued down, they impact the pushrods. This can restrict the valve opening and closing and also jam up the entire valve train:

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That's all I got.

 

[HotRodPC]

Good enough, I'd be able to figure it out with that info. Finding out if the balancer has slipped, or having the right timing tab is about all he needs to know, and make the correction as necessary then he'd be rockin'.

 

[MadOgre]

Sometimes it just the little things like forgetting to plug back in the power lead to the cap. Done that once or twice lol

 

[silverscottsk10]

@MadOgre everything is hooked up lol
It has an aftermarket tab but I've replaced the distributor once and it was right on
Far as the balancer goes it is lined up also where it needs to be
Also
Found out my cap is cracked to hell from my helper dropping it
Never dealt with a cracked cap but any insight would be good
@chengy I will have to look at the two bolts
But if I remember right they was all the same size
Nothing went down in the values as far as I know
350 distributors and I don't mix
Any other engine I do alright
But seems that the easiest engine is my difficulty

 

[chengny]

Found out my cap is cracked to hell from my helper dropping it
Never dealt with a cracked cap but any insight would be good

Like Counselor Mackey says:

"Cracked distributors are bad, M'kay"

There is a lot of voltage being handed out by the rotor to the various plug wire posts as it spins around. Like 40,000 volts. When moisture is involved (can enter through a crack) that amount of electrical potential can easily go where it is not meant to go. One or more of the post contacts or the pickup post may be cocked - any number of things can cause a crossfire situation within the cap. You need to get a new one. Read the second paragraph below - sounds familiar:

When I examined the ignition cap and rotor, I found definite evidence of timing problems. Looking at the rotor, I found that the rivet that holds the rotor electrode in place had become loose, allowing it to flop about with a considerable amount of motion inside the distributor as it was running. Aside from a lot of wear, the distributor cap had plenty of white powdery material near the contact points, a sure sign of arcing and ozone generation. Furthermore, the carbon rotor pickup 'button' in the center of the cap was also heavily worn.

All of this adds up to the possibility of a condition known as pre-ignition, whereby the spark plug fires prematurely as the piston is still coming up to TDC (Top Dead Center). This causes a great deal of stress on the connecting rod bearings and piston assembly as the plug is not supposed to fire until the piston has more or less reached to top of its travel, ready to go back down again. Essentially, it was attempting to reverse the direction of the piston in mid-travel, creating exceptional loads on the piston assembly (including bearings). Since this engine doesn't have a knock sensor, the client may not have been aware of this condition.

 

[mtnmankev]

I would vote a cracked distributor cap could be a contributing factor to it not running properly.

 

[silverscottsk10]

Like Counselor Mackey says:



"Cracked distributors are bad, M'kay"

Lol
And since it's in time that's the only way that it wouldn't run is my guess
It makes sense to me now that I seen it when I took it off

 

[bucket]

This certainly ain't my first rodeo, but that's the first I've ever heard of the two shorter intake bolts. I'd guess all my bolts have always been the short ones.

 

[HotRodPC]

I would vote a cracked distributor cap could be a contributing factor to it not running properly.

I say for damn sure a cracked cap will contribute to throwing timing off. Back in the day, if you ever wanted to sabotage someones car, especially a Ford since the cap was up front and just snapped on, didn't need no tools, all you had to do was have a standard #2 pencil. Take that pencil and scribble on the bottom of the cap all over the place drawing lines from 1 lead to the next or across to other leads. Especially if the cap was black which fords were usually blue, but GM's were black. Deal is, noone thinks to look at the cap and be looking for pencil lead markings in the cap, but it sure made a vehicle run like **** if it even started at all. What the lead lines did, was cause the spark to run off to a different lead and throw the timing way off as if you'd have hooked your plug wires up out of of order.

So with a crack, same thing. The crack can and will fill carbon dust in it, and the spark will follow that crack.

 

[HotRodPC]

This certainly ain't my first rodeo, but that's the first I've ever heard of the two shorter intake bolts. I'd guess all my bolts have always been the short ones.

Yep, you prolly had all short bolts. Cuz it's true, if you use to long of bolts, you can be bending or binding a pushrod too depending on which bolts it is. What else am I forgetting that bolts to long with screw up? Seems there is something else too along those lines.

 

[mtnmankev]

Yep, you prolly had all short bolts. Cuz it's true, if you use to long of bolts, you can be bending or binding a pushrod too depending on which bolts it is. What else am I forgetting that bolts to long with screw up? Seems there is something else too along those lines.

The fuel pump rod.
Remove short bolt, thread in a longer one to hold the rod in position while you mount the pump.
I bet some folks forgot to put the shorter bolt back in.