SM465 swap for?

[adamj]

While I appreciate the strength and durability of the sm465 (It's been through 2 engines already) I really miss having a true 5 or 6 speed while driving. Not having overdrive is not the best on highways (the speed limit's not 55 anymore!) and that jump from first to second gear is huge - basically, it's left me wishing for more gears, especially on mountain passes.

What transmissions are people swapping to? And how big of a deal is it? I'm assuming there's no direct fit, so driveshafts will have to be shortened, adapters needed, a new crossmember, etc.

Preferably I'd like a 6 speed, but the one thing I love about the sm465 is that granny gear 6.55:1 - are there any transmissions that have something like this, but are single/double over drive?

 

[yevgenievich]

NV4500(5 speed) or ZF S6-650(6 speed) are the options. NV4500 is easier as it was in 90's trucks, and the 6 speed is a bit more complicated and more expensive. The OD ratio almost the same, but 6 speed is closer range in between.
Man NV45 5.61:1 3.04:1 1.67:1 1:1 0.73:1 None
Man ZF S6 5.79:1 3.30:1 2.10:1 1.31:1 1:1 0.72:1

 

[crazy4offroad]

93-95 GM NV4500 is practically the same thing as the SM465 but with overdrive. Has a very low 1st gear. Getting rare as hen's teeth. Expect to spend a grand on the trans and $500 to adapt it to the NP205. Or you could run the NP208 that comes on it stock. I've been looking for one myself. Make sure you don't get snookered for a Dodge NV4500. The bell housings may be swappable but the input/output shafts are not the same. If you find a pile of em let me know.

 

[kickdeez]

You could go the route of adding an overdrive gear box to your drivetrain instead of swapping transmissions all-together. Look at the Ranger Torque-Splitter by Advance Adapters. You can find them for cheaper than AA sells them. You get the same overdrive ratio you would get out of the NV4500, but you also get the ability to split every gear. Makes that big jump from 1st to 2nd a lot more manageable. The Ranger bolts up between your existing bellhousing and the SM465. You will have to modify your front and rear drive shafts, cross member mounting location, and your trans tunnel...but you're gonna have to do all that for a different transmission anyway.

 

[Georgeb]

You could go the route of adding an overdrive gear box to your drivetrain instead of swapping transmissions all-together. Look at the Ranger Torque-Splitter by Advance Adapters. You can find them for cheaper than AA sells them. You get the same overdrive ratio you would get out of the NV4500, but you also get the ability to split every gear. Makes that big jump from 1st to 2nd a lot more manageable. The Ranger bolts up between your existing bellhousing and the SM465. You will have to modify your front and rear drive shafts, cross member mounting location, and your trans tunnel...but you're gonna have to do all that for a different transmission anyway.

I would love to have one some day.

 

[kickdeez]

I would love to have one some day.

You and me both brother! I almost pulled the trigger on one recently, but decided to hold off until I finish my current list of projects.

 

[adamj]

You could go the route of adding an overdrive gear box to your drivetrain instead of swapping transmissions all-together. Look at the Ranger Torque-Splitter by Advance Adapters. You can find them for cheaper than AA sells them. You get the same overdrive ratio you would get out of the NV4500, but you also get the ability to split every gear. Makes that big jump from 1st to 2nd a lot more manageable. The Ranger bolts up between your existing bellhousing and the SM465. You will have to modify your front and rear drive shafts, cross member mounting location, and your trans tunnel...but you're gonna have to do all that for a different transmission anyway.

I really like this idea!

So if I understand this right, the crossmember I can use, but it just gets moved back a bit, then shorten rear and lengthen front driveshafts. As for modifying the trans tunnel, would that be more than cutting a hole for the overdrive shifter? Or do you think I would have to reshape the tunnel since the whole transmission/tcase has shifted back?
I think this would be really cool, but we'll see if I really commit to it... It's around $1500 for that ranger overdrive unit.

 

[adamj]

93-95 GM NV4500 is practically the same thing as the SM465 but with overdrive. Has a very low 1st gear. Getting rare as hen's teeth. Expect to spend a grand on the trans and $500 to adapt it to the NP205. Or you could run the NP208 that comes on it stock. I've been looking for one myself. Make sure you don't get snookered for a Dodge NV4500. The bell housings may be swappable but the input/output shafts are not the same. If you find a pile of em let me know.

I have the 208, would that bolt right up?
What about on the bell housing side, do I need an adapter?

Seeing as how the NV4500's are very rare, would a NV5600 6-speed work?

 

[crazy4offroad]

I wouldn't be able to tell you about the 6-speed. And I misspoke about the 208, it's the NP241 (driver drop) that goes on the NV4500. And the year break for the mule gear 1st 6.34:1 is actually 93 & 94. I'm still running down how to adapt an NP205 to one. More info about it here
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transmissions/manual/nv4500

 

[adamj]

Been reading up on the ranger overdrive, and I am really liking this idea more and more!
It would be a bit of a project, especially working the tunnel and fitting the shifter, modifying the 465 shifter too. Has anybody done this before on here?
A good read on this I found: http://www.fordification.com/tech/torque-splitter.htm
(nice thing about that ford is that it has a removable trans hump cover)

 

[kickdeez]

I have read up on it a good bit, and have almost bit the bullet several times. Just hasn't been in the cards yet. I am not positive you will have to modify the SM465 shifter. I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe you would need to cut or bend the shifter to accommodate the ranger shifter when installing it on a SM465. That modification may have been specific to a Ford application.

2 additional things to think about that may or may not apply to you...these have really been 2 things that have kind of kept from doing this project so far: Check to see if your exhaust will interfere with your transmission or t-case when you shift it all back 7" +/-. My suburban has a custom exhaust, and my "catalytic converter" (really just an empty shell there for inspection purposes) is in close proximity to this area and will likely require re-routing in order to accommodate the Ranger. Also remember that both your transmission shifter and t-case shifter will both shift back 7" +/-. If you have a bench seat, this may present a conflict. In my case it does create an issue with my NP205 shifter. I plan to swap to bucket seats at some point, but just not quite ready to do it yet.

Hope this helps.

 

[adamj]

I will keep that in mind, and the shifter for the sm465 I think will have to be re-bent in a different shape for getting into reverse - it gets close to the bench already and 7" back would be a problem.
Yes, it will require some custom fabrication, and lucky for me I need a new exhaust system, so I might wait on that if I end up doing this overdrive.

 

[adamj]

Any other good overdrives out there that mate to the transfer case instead?

 

[yevgenievich]

https://www.gearvendors.com/4x4.html

But I find almost no benefit in aftermarket overdrive units. Almost same amount of work as nv4500 and cost is the same

 

[kickdeez]

https://www.gearvendors.com/4x4.html

But I find almost no benefit in aftermarket overdrive units. Almost same amount of work as nv4500 and cost is the same

I would agree with you in 9 situations out of 10. Daily driving through town, and driving or towing on flat interstate I would say NV4500 all day long. But I can say from my experience, towing through the Appalachian Mountains with the SM465 has been less than desirable. The wide gear ratios means that on those 5-10 mile long uphill stretches you end up lugging it in 4th as long as you can before you lose all speed, then you're screaming in 3rd at WOT going 30 mph with your flashers on and tractor trailers passing you. The NV4500 would be no different in this case, as the ratios are the same as the SM465 with the exception of the overdrive gear (which will not provide any benefit on a hill).

The benefits of the Ranger (as I see it) are 2 fold. First you get the overdrive (which is the same reduction as the overdrive gear in the NV4500). The second benefit (specific to the Ranger) is that you can split any gear. This is a big plus when it comes to finding that intermediate gear between 3rd and 4th to pull those mountain passes.

Installation is roughly the same. Cost differences between the 2 will fluctuate depending on your existing drivetrain setup. For me, adapting my 205 to the NV4500 is way more expensive than it is worth, so the Ranger would be cheaper in my case. But this will vary from truck to truck.