Question about air cleaner lid flip

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

Craig 85

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2017
Posts
3,917
Reaction score
4,116
Location
Nashville, TN
First Name
Craig
Truck Year
1985
Truck Model
K30 SRW
Engine Size
454/TH-400/NP205
Here's what I did on my '79 K15 (small block). I got an '81 and up air cleaner lid & filter, which is 2" taller. IDK if it works with the '87 TBI or if it would be too tall. I purchased the cold air tube and cut the end off the diffuser at the core support. Creates a ram air set up.

You must be registered for see images attach


This is my '85, but same idea.

You must be registered for see images attach
 

Keith Seymore

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Posts
2,881
Reaction score
9,145
Location
Motor City
First Name
Keith Seymore
Truck Year
1987
Truck Model
R10
Engine Size
4.3L
Well, if you guys were interested in an estimate on how much of a difference intake air temperature can theoretically make it can be estimated with ideal gas laws. Since we always want about the same ratio of air to fuel we can focus on just the air and assume it's bringing proportional fuel and power. Say 70 outside temps and 120 under the hood, that's about 529 and 579 in Rankine. Gasses expand proportionally with temperature so density goes in the inverse of temperature. So 579-529=50, 50/579=8.6% decrease in volume or it's at 91.4% of what it was. Density = m/v, so 1/.914 = 1.094. So by dropping 50 F from 120 you should pick up 9.4% hp, not to mention you should have a cooler running engine and improved efficiency. Now if the intake tube is restricting flow this would of course offset the power gains, but I think that if you're moving air is actively being crammed into the intake tube, so I bet you're actually getting more flow with the tube than with a flipped lid once you're past 25 mph or so. If that's the case it might be in the ballpark of 15%.

The gains from the cooler air overcome the losses associated with the added restriction from the tubing.

K
 

Keith Seymore

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Posts
2,881
Reaction score
9,145
Location
Motor City
First Name
Keith Seymore
Truck Year
1987
Truck Model
R10
Engine Size
4.3L
Here's what I did on my '79 K15 (small block). I got an '81 and up air cleaner lid & filter, which is 2" taller. IDK if it works with the '87 TBI or if it would be too tall. I purchased the cold air tube and cut the end off the diffuser at the core support. Creates a ram air set up.

You must be registered for see images attach


This is my '85, but same idea.

You must be registered for see images attach

That's what I did on my Chevelle (using truck parts, of course). I ran that setup for years and years; It was worth .2 sec reduction in ET in the quarter mile.

K
You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach
 

Big Heavy

Junior Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2017
Posts
9
Reaction score
4
Location
North Alabama
First Name
Bryan
Truck Year
1978
Truck Model
C15
Engine Size
350
I think this is a good setup for flow, and may even sound good.I was posting this while Keith was working on his with similar idea /\. I have had mine flipped for years but plan on going to this style.

You must be registered for see images attach
 

vkh

Full Access Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Posts
436
Reaction score
138
Location
Western Montana
First Name
Var
Truck Year
1981
Truck Model
C2500
Engine Size
454
The gains from the cooler air overcome the losses associated with the added restriction from the tubing.

K

I was saying I think that while you're moving enough air is being pushed in to overcome the restrictions. So denser air and a larger volume of it, win win.
 

vkh

Full Access Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Posts
436
Reaction score
138
Location
Western Montana
First Name
Var
Truck Year
1981
Truck Model
C2500
Engine Size
454
I think this is a good setup for flow, and may even sound good.I was posting this while Keith was working on his with similar idea /\. I have had mine flipped for years but plan on going to this style.

You must be registered for see images attach

I've done the same thing with mine. I don't have pictures and haven't run it yet but I like it.
 

spanky55amg

I'll give u $5, a hardy handshake, & 5 fish sticks
Joined
Jun 6, 2017
Posts
819
Reaction score
212
Location
Dallas, TX
First Name
Spanky
Truck Year
1984
Truck Model
C10 Short Fleet
Engine Size
V8
Well, if you guys were interested in an estimate on how much of a difference intake air temperature can theoretically make it can be estimated with ideal gas laws. Since we always want about the same ratio of air to fuel we can focus on just the air and assume it's bringing proportional fuel and power. Say 70 outside temps and 120 under the hood, that's about 529 and 579 in Rankine. Gasses expand proportionally with temperature so density goes in the inverse of temperature. So 579-529=50, 50/579=8.6% decrease in volume or it's at 91.4% of what it was. Density = m/v, so 1/.914 = 1.094. So by dropping 50 F from 120 you should pick up 9.4% hp, not to mention you should have a cooler running engine and improved efficiency. Now if the intake tube is restricting flow this would of course offset the power gains, but I think that if you're moving air is actively being crammed into the intake tube, so I bet you're actually getting more flow with the tube than with a flipped lid once you're past 25 mph or so. If that's the case it might be in the ballpark of 15%.

Well this is all fine and dandy IIIIFFFF everything is ideal and in the real world, it is not. But even if were, 1.094x180=196-20%(drive train loss)= 157 whp. Stock @180= 144. You should feel 13 whp... but you wont as in theory is fine and dandy in theory but not application. Also even if 13 hp was added, who are you racing with 157 hp and 5000 lbs? That Honda will beat you, its half the weight. And 13 hp isnt going to give you 13 ft lbs of torque either.

And last note, if you have your egr hooked up... Its heating the intake air anyways. So you are loosing that cool air effect.

Here's what I did on my '79 K15 (small block). I got an '81 and up air cleaner lid & filter, which is 2" taller. IDK if it works with the '87 TBI or if it would be too tall. I purchased the cold air tube and cut the end off the diffuser at the core support. Creates a ram air set up.

Ram air is a methodological beast. In order for ram air to work, you have to be doing something like 100 mph. I forget the math on it, but we tested it on 4th gen F bodies and basically, it doesnt exist. Pulling in cooler air does help atomize the fuel better, but once again, if you have an egr valve connected, your heating the air up anyways. Also, the air box is metal, sitting on some old american iron, so once again, the air is being heated.


Still, that all said, Its better running the tube if you have it, but you wont notice the decrease in performance running an open filter.



We could get into advance thermodynamics and physics and blah blah blah, but simply put its not going to change things. Its great for very small changes and environments (not the environment, that's a different subject on a much larger scale.) But just remember basic chemistry and physics, heat moves into cooler spaces.
 

vkh

Full Access Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Posts
436
Reaction score
138
Location
Western Montana
First Name
Var
Truck Year
1981
Truck Model
C2500
Engine Size
454
And last note, if you have your egr hooked up... Its heating the intake air anyways. So you are loosing that cool air effect.

Doesn't egr only draw when your engine is cold?
 

ajd89

Full Access Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Posts
1,537
Reaction score
768
Location
Central Michigan
First Name
andrew
Truck Year
87
Truck Model
k10
Engine Size
350
Probably a stupid question but Did some trucks come with the dual intake or is that something you make up?
 

vkh

Full Access Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Posts
436
Reaction score
138
Location
Western Montana
First Name
Var
Truck Year
1981
Truck Model
C2500
Engine Size
454
Probably a stupid question but Did some trucks come with the dual intake or is that something you make up?
To my knowledge no truck came with it. I believe some performance cars had dual snorkels though. Anyway it's really easy to fab up on these trucks since there is an extra cutout on the other side of the radiator, just punch it out, and another snout onto your air cleaner and run some tubing.
 

Iowan

Loud and Proud American!
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Posts
762
Reaction score
214
Location
Iowa
First Name
Calvin
Truck Year
1999
Truck Model
K1500
Engine Size
350 crate
And stickers are good for about 3hp a piece lol
Don't forget chrome valve covers,chrome air cleaner lids,and racing stripes. Valve covers=15 combined, air cleaner=10,racing stripes=25.
 

Iowan

Loud and Proud American!
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Posts
762
Reaction score
214
Location
Iowa
First Name
Calvin
Truck Year
1999
Truck Model
K1500
Engine Size
350 crate
But I would just like to know where to buy a oem 4 barrel cleaner?
 

Forum statistics

Threads
44,173
Posts
950,867
Members
36,288
Latest member
brentjo
Top