Pinion Depth Tricks

[MtBraun]

Rebuilding a D44 front. Upon disassembly there was no shim stack behind the inner pinion bearing race. Other anomalies suggest to me it wasn't assembled correctly anyway. I did not run a pattern (probably should have) prior to disassembly. I'd like to measure pinion depth, but don't want to buy the $600 tool for one setup. None of my local shops have the tool either. I'm hesitant to buy the cheap $30 tool but perhaps someone here can speak to its effectiveness. Or are there other tricks for measuring this without the expensive tool? Thanks!

 

[CalSgt]

Money would be better invested in a good bearing tool IMHO. The clamshell one one from Yukon… If you a get everything apart quickly without destroying bearings it would be of greater benefit than having a measurement.

I’ve had good luck setting them up how the previous gears came out and adjusting for pattern and preload from there.

 

[John Milner]

I have had good luck doing what CalSgt said. I would set it all up the way it came apart, run a pattern and adjust from there.

In the past, I have bought two identical pinion bearings and I would hone one out to make it a slip fit so it is easy to assemble/disassemble to check patterns. Once I'm happy with the pattern, I take it all back apart, press on the good bearing, run one more pattern and finsh it up.

 

[MtBraun]

Money would be better invested in a good bearing tool IMHO. The clamshell one one from Yukon… If you a get everything apart quickly without destroying bearings it would be of greater benefit than having a measurement.

I’ve had good luck setting them up how the previous gears came out and adjusting for pattern and preload from there.

Makes sense, and I have the good Yukon clamshell too. However, its my understanding that the pinion depth shims on a D44 go behind the inner race, and removing/installing that over and over is a real PITA.

An additional problem is that I'm pretty sure it wasn't set up correctly to begin with. No pinion depth shim stack, virtually no preload, etc. And since there was no depth shim stack I figured it would be starting from scratch anyway. Thoughts?

 

[CalSgt]

Makes sense, and I have the good Yukon clamshell too. However, its my understanding that the pinion depth shims on a D44 go behind the inner race, and removing/installing that over and over is a real PITA.

An additional problem is that I'm pretty sure it wasn't set up correctly to begin with. No pinion depth shim stack, virtually no preload, etc. And since there was no depth shim stack I figured it would be starting from scratch anyway. Thoughts?

Yeah it’s a pia but at least you have the puller to do it!

Your money and your time man, it will probably take more time without the measuring tools but will it take $600 worth your time? Maybe sacrificing a pinion bearing to be a set up tool would be a good alternative if you’re concerned. I like to grind the lock divots out of the old pinion nut and lube the threads to avoid galling the new pinion threads when repetitively reassembling them too.

If you are setting up gears all the time (even a few times every year), the tool may pay off. If you’re setting up fancy racing/hot rod gear sets that come with a measurement spec sheet or replacing carriers regularly it would definitely ease the job. For me, Ive done 4 diffs in the past 2 years and it wouldn’t have done me any good because I had a baseline to start with each time.

My spicer gears for my Jeep came etched with enough information to get close quickly based off of the information on the old gear set. And the GM corporates shim the carrier on the outside of the races so no money lost trying different shim’s until they were acceptable.

 

[Ricko1966]

What I use for pinion and diff bearings.

 

[Big Ray]

Makes sense, and I have the good Yukon clamshell too. However, its my understanding that the pinion depth shims on a D44 go behind the inner race, and removing/installing that over and over is a real PITA.

An additional problem is that I'm pretty sure it wasn't set up correctly to begin with. No pinion depth shim stack, virtually no preload, etc. And since there was no depth shim stack I figured it would be starting from scratch anyway. Thoughts?

Set up bearings. They will change your life!

When I did my first gear swap, a 10 bolt rear, I managed to get the inner bearing off without destroying it.
Worked on it with a homemade mandrel and sandpaper in my die grinder until it just slid over the pinion shaft.
Finally got it on the 3rd try.
89 c1500, went from 3.42 open rear to a 4.10 with an Eaton posi.
It was a perfect fit with the 700r4.
If I had to do it again, I'd go with 4.56 or 4.88.

 

[MtBraun]

Ok gang, what am I missing? This diagram shows the pinion depth shim stack in between the inner bearing race and the diff housing, not between the bearing and the pinion gear. Which means I'd have to remove the race from the housing every time. I suppose a set up race could be made as well. It appears based on this feedback that you all are putting the shims behind the inner bearing and the pinion gear. It would accomplish the same thing in terms of setting pinion depth....I think. Newbie challenges here!

 

[CalSgt]

If the pinion depth shim goes under the inner race that’s ideal. Just carefully tap the race out to make adjustments. Only common risk there is damaging or bending your shims if you don’t pay attention. No specialty tools required, just a hammer and punch. If the shims are shiny and hard to see agains the shiny bearing race mark them up with a sharpie so you can see where they’re at when placing the punch down in there.

I’ve never built an older Dana 44 only a late model one. IIRC the pinion shims were under the race on that set up too.

 

[MtBraun]

If the pinion depth shim goes under the inner race that’s ideal. Just carefully tap the race out to make adjustments. Only common risk there is damaging or bending your shims if you don’t pay attention. No specialty tools required, just a hammer and punch. If the shims are shiny and hard to see agains the shiny bearing race mark them up with a sharpie so you can see where they’re at when placing the punch down in there.

I’ve never built an older Dana 44 only a late model one. IIRC the pinion shims were under the race on that set up too.

I'm going to have to get a setup race. Or I need to remove some material from the housing where the race seats. I had a heckuva time getting my new race seated and removed. Damn near destroyed a new brass drift.

 

[Ricko1966]

I haven't worked on your exact setup and don't have a pic or even no where I put the tool I made to pull the races when I was done with it 15 years ago. I did find something to use as a description picture, get a piece of heavy strap,drill a hole in the center and round the corners,don't weld the nut to the all thread You slip it behind the race and use a piece of all thread to pull it out. Or a slide hammer,you can pull it all back together with all thread 2 sockets 2 washers and 2 nuts.I pictured me pulling in from hub races with all thread. Look for an exploded view of your diff. Shims between the race and carrier doesn't sound right. I think your shims in the wrong place but I've never done a dana.

 

[Bennyt]

I paid $150 to a shop to set-up the R&P for labor. Drop off bare housing, pick-up next day. Total bill was much higher as I put in all new parts but the labor itself was only $150 and they were ok if I had brought my own parts. I know we all like to do things ourselves but unless you are going to be doing this on a regular basis, buying the correct tools to do it right, may never pay off. For me, I've probably have an axle built every 4-5 years.

 

[Ricko1966]

Rebuilding a D44 front. Upon disassembly there was no shim stack behind the inner pinion bearing race. Other anomalies suggest to me it wasn't assembled correctly anyway. I did not run a pattern (probably should have) prior to disassembly. I'd like to measure pinion depth, but don't want to buy the $600 tool for one setup. None of my local shops have the tool either. I'm hesitant to buy the cheap $30 tool but perhaps someone here can speak to its effectiveness. Or are there other tricks for measuring this without the expensive tool? Thanks!

Since you already have it apart,how hard would it be to put the pinion back like it was? I asked because you can bolt a piece of angle or strap across the carrier cap location. Mark and drill a hole you can eye ball through to see the pinion. Put piece of all thread through the hole put a nut on the all thread push the all thread in until it touches the pinion secure your all thread at that depth with a nut in each side of the strap. Now back the all thread off .030 little secure it and measure the distance from the all thread to the pinion with feeler gauges. Now you have a go/nogo gauge if you are touching the all thread on reassmbly you are too deep,if your gap opens up much you're not deep enough.this provided it was set up right to begin with. Which you will find out when you run your pattern. Post if you can't do this I have another way but you will need to know what your pinion depth is supposed to be per the manufacturer.

 

[MtBraun]

Shims between the race and carrier doesn't sound right. I think your shims in the wrong place but I've never done a dana.

Me neither, lol, but that's what the diagram shows. Check that out on my earlier post. And since East Coast Gear (probably others too) make a set up race tells me that's where they are supposed to go.