Oil, Filters, and Changes

[Skweegle89]

Ah, OK. That makes a lot of sense. It's amazing how much of a big deal some people online make about this!

You can read opinions on zddp for days and days. Long story short, flat tappet cams need zddp to prevent premature wear. Back in the day, most oils had sufficient amounts. Since then, catalytic converters came into play and apparently zddp causes problems with them, so levels were decreased in most oils. Since new motors are mostly roller cam engines, they don't require it anyway, but when breaking in a new cam an additive is certainly recommended. The motor I spoke of when telling you what oil I use only has about 75 miles on it. That's why I said I use the additive. I'm not telling you to run out and buy it, but it's sure not going to hurt anything. If your curious, @chengny has knowledge of a couple motor oils that have nearly sufficient levels of zddp, one of which being the rotella I spoke of.


Sent from an old rotary telephone.

 

[flyboy1100]

Most diesel oils are a few generations behind on the saw service levels. Which is great for older engines. I think the next time I change mine I will get some 10w-40 if it exists. Don't want to get T6 just due to how quick I lose oil other wise I would as it is an awesome oil

 

[mistaake]

Random thought... I don't remember seeing cat(s) under the truck when I was replacing the starter. I wasn't particularly looking so I might be derping out here but would an 83 C20 small block 350 california truck have catalytic converters??

 

[rich weyand]

My opinion: Zinc and phosphate additives are not just for break-in. Sufficient ZDDP levels should be maintained. ZDDP under high pressure deposits a protective coating on wiping surfaces like cam lobes and lifter bottoms. It then wears off, but it has been chemically changed during this process so it cannot redeposit. Thus, during the oil change period, ZDDP levels in the oil fall. They are restored when you change oil, assuming the oil has sufficient ZDDP, or you add it.

I run Mobil1 10W30 full synthetic oil, plus one-half bottle of ZDDPPlus per oil change, and the AC Delco PF1218 oil filter.

 

[Stepside Billy]

Your engine won't get destroyed its just critical components weren't properly broke in thats all. Once a rebuild is done with say a new cam the engine needs a proper break in.. ZDDP is one of those things that is critical in a proper cam or engine rebuild so the motor doesn't degrade.

The biggest thing about not using zddp in a new motor is you can wipe a lobe on a cam and well that gets expensive.

I found out the hard way not using ZDDP in my engine after a cam swap. Wiped out the lobe on a nice Comp Cam.

 

[mistaake]

My opinion: Zinc and phosphate additives are not just for break-in. Sufficient ZDDP levels should be maintained. ZDDP under high pressure deposits a protective coating on wiping surfaces like cam lobes and lifter bottoms. It then wears off, but it has been chemically changed during this process so it cannot redeposit. Thus, during the oil change period, ZDDP levels in the oil fall. They are restored when you change oil, assuming the oil has sufficient ZDDP, or you add it.

I run Mobil1 10W30 full synthetic oil, plus one-half bottle of ZDDPPlus per oil change, and the AC Delco PF1218 oil filter.

So, over how many miles does a lack of ZDDP cause problems? I mean, if the engine lasts another 200,000 miles before experiencing a mechanical failure, who cares. If it's a matter of permanently causing damage to the engine within 20,000 miles then adding ZDDP is a priority.

 

[PrairieDrifter]

On a cam swap the first 500 miles is what really counts then you should change your oil for safe measures after the cam gets broken in during that 500 miles.

 

[rich weyand]

ZDDP is a wear reducer. Not having it in there will result in somewhat faster wear during normal engine operation than if you had it in there. Is your engine going to blow up in 20,000 miles without it? No. Will your lifter bottoms, cam lobes, pushrods, lifter sockets, and rocker sockets have the equivalent of 150,000 miles on them at 100,000? Yeah, probably.

 

[77 K20]

So, over how many miles does a lack of ZDDP cause problems? I mean, if the engine lasts another 200,000 miles before experiencing a mechanical failure, who cares. If it's a matter of permanently causing damage to the engine within 20,000 miles then adding ZDDP is a priority.

When I first bought my K20 about 12 years ago the engine was fine. I ran just cheap Chevron oil or whatever I could find on sale in it. I figured why give it good oil since it had a lot of oil leaks?

Only drove it 4,000-5,000 miles a year, but that was hauling gravel or towing my 5th wheel. After about 5-6 years of doing that it developed a strange popping/miss-fire issue if I got above 3,000 RPM. Turns out I wiped out one of the lobes, but didn't know it. Kept driving it. It got worse. By the time it was pulled several lobes were flat.

I switched to Mobile 1 or the Mobile 1 High Mileage synthetic. Plus winters here can be very cold. The synthetic flows easier at 0 degrees.

 

[fussfeld]

Wix, forgot which part #, but the one that fits small blocks.
Or mobil 1

Redline 10W-30 synthetic or Royal purple depending on which one i can find and/or which one is on sale. Both of these have sufficient zinc (zddp---1000 ppm minimum) to be covered in case you really need zddp..........?


My feelings on the the whole ZDDP thing are as follows:

1) i sort of think if you are running stock valve spring pressures, then you don't need it.

2) HOWEVER, IF synthetic, with adequate zddp lasts twice as long as conventional oil AND costs twice as much (which it generally does), then this is cheap insurance AND it's a wash anyways. i wait to change my oil twice as long as i would conventional oil.

So, i'm covered, at no extra charge, in case you really do need zddp. And, as i've said i'm doubtful that you do.

 

[Stepside Billy]

On a cam swap the first 500 miles is what really counts then you should change your oil for safe measures after the cam gets broken in during that 500 miles.

My cam was wiped out in less than 50 miles. Used the assembly lube and broke the cam in properly. Gotta use the right stuff so you don't end up redoing everything!

 

[fussfeld]

What i meant was since change intervals for synthetic are longer then if i change with synthetic at 10,000 miles vs. 5000 miles for conventional then the cost is exactly the same. Synthetic is about twice the cost of conventional.


2) Comment on this:
http://www.shopfiltermag.com/

 

[mistaake]

What i meant was since change intervals for synthetic are longer then if i change with synthetic at 10,000 miles vs. 5000 miles for conventional then the cost is exactly the same. Synthetic is about twice the cost of conventional.


2) Comment on this:
http://www.shopfiltermag.com/

How about just using old hard drive magnets? They are very powerful and are free... Just go to your local computer shop and ask for a dead desktop hard drive and pull the magnets out.

 

[77 K20]

Of course there are different opinions on adding magnets to oil filters- but most seem to think it isn't a good idea. You are trying to catch iron particles in something that quite often has flow thru it. Most seem to think just having a magnetic drain plug on your oil pan is good enough.

Also for that price you can do a lot of other things. Or just buy magnets from Amazon and stick them on the filter your self for $6.

http://www.amazon.com/Neodymium-Mag..._indust_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=10JQ2191E912DYV3NC2V

 

[PrairieDrifter]

My cam was wiped out in less than 50 miles. Used the assembly lube and broke the cam in properly. Gotta use the right stuff so you don't end up redoing everything!

Your spring pressure is a need to know thing if your doing a cam swap if your springs have too much pressure you'll wipe out a few cam lobes after break in and the first 2 miles! And you might end up doing it a few times before you realize I usually break my cams in at about 1800rpm for about 20 mins, and of course watching it like a Hawk and listening very carefully haha