New to pickups & fifth wheels

[BaseClock]

Hi everyone,

Just joined the forum. I searched to see if my questions were discussed but after some time realized it's best to reference a post and just ask specific to my situation (https://www.gmsquarebody.com/threads/k20-pulling-19k-lbs.40119/page 8). Don't want to do anything dangerous here, but don't have any intent on going for less than a 3500 dually... And not sure I'm going to be trying to tow 19k... Likely not. Not going to be driving it around a ton, more like posting up for weeks to months at a time then relocating.

So I'm going for full time living in the biggest 5th wheel I can find and will need something to tow it. One major component of my overall goal is to have something that can do the job without electronic controlled fuel injection. So that would be something carbourated or something with early mechanical style injectors (which I believe they started in the early 90s?). I would prefer it be a GM, for maintenance and parts availability. Not against doing an engine swap if necessary, but would prefer lowest cost and easiest startup. Diesel and dually would be the necessity I imagine for a 40ft+ fifth wheel. A crew cab 4dr highly desired.

Can I realistically go this route with an 80s or early 90s GM?

Thanks for any tips or guidance.

 

[Keith Seymore]

Trailering chart:

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Keep in mind the values across the top are GCW (Gross Combined weight, not just the weight of the trailer) so they include the weight of the truck.

K

 

[Old Guy Bill]

You can basically do anything you want, air bags can make any rig level, I see it all the time when we travel in our RV. Lots of rigs out there are way over loaded, especially when it comes to the pin weight of the RV on the rear of the truck.
Being able to do it efficiently without having the motor screaming in low gear while trying to pull a long grade on the Highway is a whole other issue though.

 

[BaseClock]

You can basically do anything you want, air bags can make any rig level, I see it all the time when we travel in our RV. Lots of rigs out there are way over loaded, especially when it comes to the pin weight of the RV on the rear of the truck.
Being able to do it efficiently without having the motor screaming in low gear while trying to pull a long grade on the Highway is a whole other issue though.

This is the feedback I need. Thank you. I would be doing a new truck if I didn't care about resiliency. What's the best approach for tackling that issue? I want to go diesel right? Would a supercharger be possible or helpful for this issue? Maybe not going to win any awards for efficiency no matter what, but can I at least make it light work that doesn't make me and everyone else nervous? My locale will be mainly mountain west to great lakes. There WILL be grades.

 

[Old Guy Bill]

It’s all about the weight.. today’s RVs come in many types, from ultra light all the way up to the huge toy haulers. Keep in mind the advertised weight on RV web sites is as they roll off the assembly line, no battery, propane tanks etc…plus your personal stuff adds up quick also.
A huge number of people are living in RVs full time now, it’s cheaper than owning a home, and a lot more flexibility.

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It’s no doubt the diesel is the pulling champion, great torque at low rpm, plus the exhaust brake option works wonderfully, but the initial cost and maintenance is higher than a gas engine.
About ten yrs ago I was pulling a 30’ travel trailer with a F-150, 5.0 V8.
The truck had plenty of power and brakes but that big flat trailer could be like a sail sometimes making driving comfortable difficult.
I now pull a 38’ fifth wheel with a max GVWR of 14,000lbs. I wouldn’t consider anything but a diesel for pulling it. I’ve actually got more truck than needed, but having too much truck never hurts.

 

[BaseClock]

It’s all about the weight.. today’s RVs come in many types, from ultra light all the way up to the huge toy haulers. Keep in mind the advertised weight on RV web sites is as they roll off the assembly line, no battery, propane tanks etc…plus your personal stuff adds up quick also.
A huge number of people are living in RVs full time now, it’s cheaper than owning a home, and a lot more flexibility.

You must be registered for see images attach

It’s no doubt the diesel is the pulling champion, great torque at low rpm, plus the exhaust brake option works wonderfully, but the initial cost and maintenance is higher than a gas engine.
About ten yrs ago I was pulling a 30’ travel trailer with a F-150, 5.0 V8.
The truck had plenty of power and brakes but that big flat trailer could be like a sail sometimes making driving comfortable difficult.
I now pull a 38’ fifth wheel with a max GVWR of 14,000lbs. I wouldn’t consider anything but a diesel for pulling it. I’ve actually got more truck than needed, but having too much truck never hurts.

Thanks for the follow up. Nice ride you've got there

Yes, full time living is the goal for me actually. Don't need to be moving around all the time but want to be able to relocate when I want and do so safely/reliably. So that is just to say, grand touring retiree style isn't the goal. I'll be working full time mostly remote. It would be my home and office. If the fifth wheel were to have a toy hauler space it would likely be converted to an office.

Hence I am hoping to get the largest I can find. Toy hauling isn't a requirement but might be cool later. It will likely be heavy as to support propane, tesla batteries, solar, etc off grid supports. Two people and two cats. Not sure what my weight would clock in at, but don't want to be any more limited than necessary.

Is this incompatible with a late 80s early 90s diesel/quad/dually? Willing to do engine swap and/or trans swap +air bags but still don't want electric fuel injection.

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

It’s all about the weight.. today’s RVs come in many types, from ultra light all the way up to the huge toy haulers. Keep in mind the advertised weight on RV web sites is as they roll off the assembly line, no battery, propane tanks etc…plus your personal stuff adds up quick also.
A huge number of people are living in RVs full time now, it’s cheaper than owning a home, and a lot more flexibility.

You must be registered for see images attach

It’s no doubt the diesel is the pulling champion, great torque at low rpm, plus the exhaust brake option works wonderfully, but the initial cost and maintenance is higher than a gas engine.
About ten yrs ago I was pulling a 30’ travel trailer with a F-150, 5.0 V8.
The truck had plenty of power and brakes but that big flat trailer could be like a sail sometimes making driving comfortable difficult.
I now pull a 38’ fifth wheel with a max GVWR of 14,000lbs. I wouldn’t consider anything but a diesel for pulling it. I’ve actually got more truck than needed, but having too much truck never hurts.

Looks like rigs I see in the RV park I live in.

 

[Old Guy Bill]

Hence I am hoping to get the largest I can find. Toy hauling isn't a requirement but might be cool later. It will likely be heavy as to support propane, tesla batteries, solar, etc off grid supports. Two people and two cats. Not sure what my weight would clock in at, but don't want to be any more limited than necessary.

Is this incompatible with a late 80s early 90s diesel/quad/dually? Willing to do engine swap and/or trans swap +air bags but still don't want electric fuel injection.

Anything can be accomplished if enough time and money are spent towards it..
Do a lot of research and find the RV that fits your needs first, it’s a buyers market right now, there’s a glut of used ones that were bought during Covid.
Then decide how much power you’ll need in a pickup. I’m no expert in those years trucks & diesel engines but I doubt they will up to the task without massive changes.

 

[Bextreme04]

Thanks for the follow up. Nice ride you've got there

Yes, full time living is the goal for me actually. Don't need to be moving around all the time but want to be able to relocate when I want and do so safely/reliably. So that is just to say, grand touring retiree style isn't the goal. I'll be working full time mostly remote. It would be my home and office. If the fifth wheel were to have a toy hauler space it would likely be converted to an office.

Hence I am hoping to get the largest I can find. Toy hauling isn't a requirement but might be cool later. It will likely be heavy as to support propane, tesla batteries, solar, etc off grid supports. Two people and two cats. Not sure what my weight would clock in at, but don't want to be any more limited than necessary.

Is this incompatible with a late 80s early 90s diesel/quad/dually? Willing to do engine swap and/or trans swap +air bags but still don't want electric fuel injection.

You aren't going to want to pull much of anything with a factory 80's diesel. The 6.2 is a dog and will barely pull itself. You could start with a C or K30 crew cab diesel, but I would suggest swapping in a cummins or duramax if you are going to use it for extended pulling duty with the hills we have around here and where you are saying you are going. The other option is to get one that already has a 454 and then do your own upgrades. You can do a 496 stroker kit and some easy upgrades to make plenty of power, but it won't be as reliable or fuel efficient as the diesel. If you weren't trying t onot be fuel injected I would recommend a swap for a Vortec 7.4 or 8.1 from a 96-2006 1 ton truck. Tons of power and super reliable.

 

[85K304SPD]

I love my squares, ( and "hate" EFI & computer controlled) but they are limited. A big fifth wheel trailer will take a big diesel, modernish truck. Or just get a smaller trailer. They aren't designed, engineered or built for more than about 9-10,000 lbs of load. (see Keiths table above). Its not just "if the motor can" The frames are not like the modern ones, brakes either. Trust the engineers, and keep it safe for all of us out there.

 

[BaseClock]

You aren't going to want to pull much of anything with a factory 80's diesel. The 6.2 is a dog and will barely pull itself. You could start with a C or K30 crew cab diesel, but I would suggest swapping in a cummins or duramax if you are going to use it for extended pulling duty with the hills we have around here and where you are saying you are going. The other option is to get one that already has a 454 and then do your own upgrades. You can do a 496 stroker kit and some easy upgrades to make plenty of power, but it won't be as reliable or fuel efficient as the diesel. If you weren't trying t onot be fuel injected I would recommend a swap for a Vortec 7.4 or 8.1 from a 96-2006 1 ton truck. Tons of power and super reliable.

Thanks for the recommendations! Again, exactly the kind of info a novice with mechanical aptitude is looking for.

I'm trying desperately to get back to Wyoming (maybe Wind River area to Tensleep or maybe Story), Montana or NW Colorado. Since I left Casper it's been rough to adapt lol. I know the grades are no joke so definitely want to make sure I'm not setting myself up for a dangerous pain in the...

I'll look into these engines. Thanks again.

 

[BaseClock]

I love my squares, ( and "hate" EFI & computer controlled) but they are limited. A big fifth wheel trailer will take a big diesel, modernish truck. Or just get a smaller trailer. They aren't designed, engineered or built for more than about 9-10,000 lbs of load. (see Keiths table above). Its not just "if the motor can" The frames are not like the modern ones, brakes either. Trust the engineers, and keep it safe for all of us out there.

I'm an engineer just not an automotive engineer.

I hear you though. I would go new, but it's just the electronics. So I'm willing to gut, reinforce, etc. to avoid them on this particular rig. I don't hate the electronics, just don't want them in the thing that will keep me housed, mobile and free. It's more than a preference, it's a resiliency and sustainability thing. That's all I will say about the electronic fuel injection at the risk of revealing how crazy I am

 

[Bextreme04]

I'm an engineer just not an automotive engineer.

I hear you though. I would go new, but it's just the electronics. So I'm willing to gut, reinforce, etc. to avoid them on this particular rig. I don't hate the electronics, just don't want them in the thing that will keep me housed, mobile and free. It's more than a preference, it's a resiliency and sustainability thing. That's all I will say about the electronic fuel injection at the risk of revealing how crazy I am

Its hugely limiting... and honestly trying to stay away from electronics will keep you away from the most reliable setups. In my opinion the only way you make an older truck match the limitations you have set is to get a 1 ton crew cab and swap in a 12v cummins and manual trans. That setup is well understood and supported and is dead nuts reliable while being entirely mechanical. You'll have to have some mods to the cummins to get a decent power output, but it's pretty manageable. Its such a popular solution that I wouldn't be surprised to see you able to buy one in good shape already set up that way for 1/2 what a used 2000's diesel would cost you.

 

[BaseClock]

Its hugely limiting... and honestly trying to stay away from electronics will keep you away from the most reliable setups. In my opinion the only way you make an older truck match the limitations you have set is to get a 1 ton crew cab and swap in a 12v cummins and manual trans. That setup is well understood and supported and is dead nuts reliable while being entirely mechanical. You'll have to have some mods to the cummins to get a decent power output, but it's pretty manageable. Its such a popular solution that I wouldn't be surprised to see you able to buy one in good shape already set up that way for 1/2 what a used 2000's diesel would cost you.

Awesome. I'm going to research this. Which mods should I research? Can I use a supercharger?

 

[Frankenchevy]

If you don’t want anything computer controlled under the hood and are willing to modify accordingly, start with a 94-97 ram 3500 quad cab dually with a 12v Cummins and an nv4500 transmission. Modify that platform. It’ll keep you safer and have less issues with insurance if, God forbid, you get in an accident. If your home state will be smog exempt, there are some 12v swapped newer truck platforms. They’ll have computers just about everywhere but the engine bay at that point, though.

Also, out of curiosity, why the Tesla batteries in the RV? Much better options out there. I don’t believe they’ll sell them to a consumer to be installed on an RV, either. Maybe you have a house to pull them off of though…

If reliability and serviceability are your priorities, I’d go with user serviceable server rack batteries over the Tesla batteries. With server rack batteries made by SOK or similar, you can replace individual cells fairly easily. Not to mention, significantly cheaper per kWh of storage.