New engine startup

[scenic760]

Hey All!

Tonight I finally got to a point to where I was able to make an attempt at starting the engine in my 1981 Suburban. Quick history, new engine and I'm using an MSD Atomic EFI system.

It's a new engine so I was hoping to get it up to 2000-2500 rpm to break in the camshaft however Murphy had another thing in store for me tonight.

It started right up but there was some stumbling and backfiring...I tried to bring the throttle up to get the rpms up but it stalled out. It smelled a bit turpentine-ish so I tried it again hoping it just had to burn through some residual gas in the pickup (I drained the tank and added 5 gals of fresh fuel) but same results..it seemed to me a classic case of off timing..but I haven't done this in a few years...

I'm using the Driven break in oil, I pre-oiled the engine about 2 hours prior and was seeing about 60 psi...My question is being a new flat tappet camshaft, it ran for about 30 seconds and didn't get anywhere near 2000 rpm if I had to guess. Am I just completely screwed at this point and almost guaranteed a wiped lobe?

Tomorrow I'm going to reverify the firing order (3rd time) and check the timing but how many chances do I have to get it up and going before I'm proverbaly urinating into the wind?

 

[fast 99]

The lobe should be fine. Continue on the trouble shooting and try to follow the break in instructions. Old bad gas would be more concern to me. Would be fairly easy to stick a valve with it. Get as much as possible out and dilute what's left with plenty of new fuel.

 

[scenic760]

The lobe should be fine. Continue on the trouble shooting and try to follow the break in instructions. Old bad gas would be more concern to me. Would be fairly easy to stick a valve with it. Get as much as possible out and dilute what's left with plenty of new fuel.

Thanks Fast!

I think the only bad gas would have been in the 12" or so of the pickup tube... I ran a new fuel line for the EFI from the tank...there is a prefilter to the pump as well so I should probably check that tomorrow as well. What was burning at startup smelled almost identical to what I drained out (about 10+ gal that I poured in an evap pit)..could a valve really get stuck that quickly?

The one thing I did do was set the initial timing at 12 degrees BTDC...was that a mistake?

You think I should throw another 5 gal in the tank? I guess I should probably fill the whole 40 gal up and use it as a storage tank at the very least before gas goes to $7 a gallon here....

 

[Matt69olds]

I would think 12 degrees would be a good starting point. What are you using for timing control?

I have never had much luck breaking in a flat tappet cam without the engine overheating. It’s always a gamble if you can get the full 30 minutes at 2500rpm without puking coolant everywhere. I always start the engine outside, and leave the radiator drain petcock open. Put a garden hose in the radiator filler neck, and turn on the hose just fast enough that the radiator is refilled at the same rate it drains.

The constant cold water helps keep the engine cool, and the expensive antifreeze isn’t puked all over the ground. Once the break in period is over, refill with the proper coolant.

 

[fast 99]

Usually starting a new engine, they die for one reason or another. It isn't a problem. Actually, I usually shut it off and check for fluid leaks.

All I was trying to get across on the bad fuel is get rid of it. Depends on how bad the fuel is. Yes, it is fairly easy to stick a valve on bad fuel. Another one of those learning experiences I don't care to repeat.

Overheating on a new engine, to make sure it is full remove a heater hose or coolant sensor on the intake add coolant until full. Then seal that up and fill the radiator. I know others will do it differently but this way you're not guessing at all. There will still be some air but usually not enough to cause an issue. If the radiator cap is left off, it will push water out. Check the upper hose for temp and thermostat opening during the first 5 minutes or so.

 

[Bextreme04]

I would think 12 degrees would be a good starting point. What are you using for timing control?

I have never had much luck breaking in a flat tappet cam without the engine overheating. It’s always a gamble if you can get the full 30 minutes at 2500rpm without puking coolant everywhere. I always start the engine outside, and leave the radiator drain petcock open. Put a garden hose in the radiator filler neck, and turn on the hose just fast enough that the radiator is refilled at the same rate it drains.

The constant cold water helps keep the engine cool, and the expensive antifreeze isn’t puked all over the ground. Once the break in period is over, refill with the proper coolant.

I just put a big fan in front of the radiator while ground running mine and it worked well. No overheating at all.

 

[scenic760]

Thanks for the insight everyone!

I'm using an MSD 6AL to control the timing...I was going to check the firing order, check the pre filter to the fuel pump and then go through the troubleshooting checklist from the Atomic... I figured I'm getting fuel and getting spark so I can't be that far off!

I didn't think about running it at 2500 rpm for 30 minutes sitting still, I can now see that being a problem! I like both the hose and fan methods! I filled it with distilled water to hopefully get all the rust moving around and drain it after break in was my initial thought...I have a big 110cfm fan for a kids bouncy that I'll hook up in front of it!

 

[scenic760]

OK!

So I went back and looked at everything, checked the filter and put 5 more gal of fresh gas in the tank...I did find that I had somehow mixed up the 5 and 7 wires.

I got the engine up to 2100-2500 for 20 mins and then shut it down, I put a big fan in front of it to cool it. The temp went to about 175-190 ...I went to go start it back up and now it won't start up?!

I don't think the alternator is charging for some reason so I have my other Suburban hooked up to it but I can't get it to start!?

 

[Bextreme04]

OK!

So I went back and looked at everything, checked the filter and put 5 more gal of fresh gas in the tank...I did find that I had somehow mixed up the 5 and 7 wires.

I got the engine up to 2100-2500 for 20 mins and then shut it down, I put a big fan in front of it to cool it. The temp went to about 175-190 ...I went to go start it back up and now it won't start up?!

I don't think the alternator is charging for some reason so I have my other Suburban hooked up to it but I can't get it to start!?

As in cranks but wont fire, or wont crank?

 

[scenic760]

As in cranks but wont fire, or wont crank?

Well...mystery solved on why it wouldn't start up...it looks like in my haste I wasn't too concerned with where the plug wires were sitting on the exhaust manifold...it started right back up after I pieced in some of the old wires...

However now it's not wanting to start/idle and it seems like a fuel issue..I think the EFI ma be flooded at this point...I will let it dry out and try to get it going later...probably ordering a new set of plug wires wuld be a bad idea at at this point either..

 

[dvdswan]

um... oops.

 

[scenic760]

um... oops.

Yeah...I feel like a bit of an idiot posting it but hey, you guys are honest with me so it's a two way street..haha!

 

[potent rodent]

Well...mystery solved on why it wouldn't start up...it looks like in my haste I wasn't too concerned with where the plug wires were sitting on the exhaust manifold...it started right back up after I pieced in some of the old wires...

However now it's not wanting to start/idle and it seems like a fuel issue..I think the EFI ma be flooded at this point...I will let it dry out and try to get it going later...probably ordering a new set of plug wires wuld be a bad idea at at this point either..

ouch