LS & Vortec Swap to 90-91 VSS Electronic Gauge Cluster

[dougbert]

LS & Vortec Swap to 90-91 VSS Electronic Gauge Cluster

In my build thread I cover searching for gauges on my LS swap (see signature for link) since my NP241c generates a VSS signal and not a cable.

I bought a Intellitronix digital gauge set, but didn't like it not working, so I found a 90-91 Suburban gauge cluster off of ebay. Its speedo runs off of a VSS signal so it should work. When I received the cluster, I repinned the IP plug for the suburban and test fired it up on the bench. Several illumination bulbs were burned out so I got some bulbs from my parts bin and ran into a hitch

The suburban cluster lamps were fixed in their sockets AND the holes in the suburban cluster were SMALLER than the holes in the 81-87 cluster.

But I found sockets that accept a wedge lamp (including LEDs) from www.superbrightleds.com

T3.25S-TW @ www.supperbrightleds.com

https://www.superbrightleds.com/more...ocket/704/962/

So documenting this information here in a center location and not just my build thread



Link to my Instrument Panel Plug repining post: http://www.gmsquarebody.com/forum/showpost.php?p=340261&postcount=332


81-87 STOCK CLUSTER PLUG WIRING

Pin #, function, and color

1 High Beam Light Green

2 Dash Lights Gray

3 Ground Black

4 12v Keyed Power Pink/Black

5 Oil Pressure Tan

6 12v Keyed Power Punk/Black

7 Fuel Gauge Pink

8 Ground Black

9 Water/Coolant Temp Turquoise

10 Ground Black

11 Left Turn Light Blue

12 Right Turn Dark Blue

13 Seat Belt Yellow

14 Empty

15 Oil/Choke Dark Blue

16 12v Keyed Power Pink/Black

17 Brake Warn Tan/White

18 Fuel Gauge Pink



AFTER THE REPINING for the suburban cluster

Plug Diagram After Repining

Pin #, function, and color

1 High Beam Light Green

2 Ground Black

3 Oil Pressure Tan

4 12v Keyed Pink/Black (Tie #17 with this wire)

5 Alternator I put a Dark Green wire that was removed
from a different number. It would have been thrown away but I reused it.

6 Empty

7 Empty

8 Water/Coolant Temp Dark Blue

9 Dash Lights Gray

10 Left Turn Turquoise

11 Right Turn Dark Blue

12 4x4 status light

13 Seat belt Warn Yellow

14 Fuel Gauge Pink

15 Brake Warn Light Tan/White

16 Check Engine Light (wire from your LS Harness (You will need to add a wire here. I used one that was removed while repining)

17 12v Keyed Power Pink/Black (Tie this wire to # 4)

18 VSS Speed Wire (You will have to add a wire here after the repining. I used one that was already removed here also)

dougbert

Pic of the twist socket from superbrightleds

 

[HotRodPC]

There it is @dougbert . Copied that thread and put it here in Engine Swaps and Stuck it with a different title. Good Info !!! Rep given.

 

[dougbert]

There it is @dougbert . Copied that thread and put it here in Engine Swaps and Stuck it with a different title. Good Info !!! Rep given.

all is good

 

[4WDKC]

Why didnt you run the gauge from the output of the ecm of the LS/Vortec? Is there a specific reason everyone switches to the 241 case instead of using the 208 with VS from a Camaro?

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[HotRodPC]

Speaking of which, I think I probably need to sell this 91 Burb Cluster I have. The only thing I know wrong with it is the trip odo doesn't reset. I was going to take it apart to see if it was something simple or easy to swap which I believe it is, but I never did figure out how to pull the ribbon out without tearing it up and was waiting for someone to tell me the quick tip.

Last one of these damn things I seen on ebay it was $199 + shipping and the damn thing was even broke in the common place where the gear indicator cable is routed.

 

[yevgenievich]

I could never get more than $60 for the clusters that I sold. On the trip reset, you have to push and the twist the knob. Mine was not working, but i was able to work it out by trying a little every couple of days until it did work.

 

[HotRodPC]

I could never get more than $60 for the clusters that I sold. On the trip reset, you have to push and the twist the knob. Mine was not working, but i was able to work it out by trying a little every couple of days until it did work.

There's one of these cluster on eBay right now for $350 that isn't broke. Doesn't mean he'll get it but he's asking it. And then that one I seen not long ago for $199 that was broke. I think it sold.

 

[axekick]

Why didnt you run the gauge from the output of the ecm of the LS/Vortec? Is there a specific reason everyone switches to the 241 case instead of using the 208 with VS from a Camaro?

You must be registered for see images attach

I want to know more about this. Can you bolt this VSS in the 208? What reluctor needs to be installed on the output shaft?

 

[4WDKC]

I want to know more about this. Can you bolt this VSS in the 208? What reluctor needs to be installed on the output shaft?

In theory it should work, I havent done it say my truck still uses cable driven speedo but, the 700r4 this came out of was used in both mech and elec. speedo cars. When i replaced the tailshaft in my 208 I noticed the cable driven on looked just like the for my 700r4. Rock auto shows one for the 87 v10 also.

 

[axekick]

My 87 V10 has a cable drive on the np208. I think there is a reluctor that would fit on the shaft where the speedo gear is. I might even have one. It's a 40 pulse. So if that sensor would fit the cable drive location on the TC, it might work. I have a 208 on the floor in my garage. I might have to experiment on it.

 

[RoryH19]

I'm thinking about the same swap for my k5.
Removing the 305/700r4/np208 for a Ls6.0/4L65e/np241
It seems the escalades/denalis 02-06 have the ls6.0/4L65e and I would get the np241 from a 90-91 burb along with it vss gauge cluster. This setup should allow the use of the same trans/tc mounts and drive shafts. Would just need motor mounts. Also an electric fuel pump.
It terms of wiring what else is needed besides the engine PCM/harness?
I assume this also control the trans or is there another harness?
For the 4L65e to shift it has to communicate with the tail shaft of the np241's vss, is there a harness for that or can I splice into the trans harness somewhere?

 

[Crispy]

I'm thinking about the same swap for my k5.
Removing the 305/700r4/np208 for a Ls6.0/4L65e/np241
It seems the escalades/denalis 02-06 have the ls6.0/4L65e and I would get the np241 from a 90-91 burb along with it vss gauge cluster. This setup should allow the use of the same trans/tc mounts and drive shafts. Would just need motor mounts. Also an electric fuel pump.
It terms of wiring what else is needed besides the engine PCM/harness?
I assume this also control the trans or is there another harness?
For the 4L65e to shift it has to communicate with the tail shaft of the np241's vss, is there a harness for that or can I splice into the trans harness somewhere?

For my swap I'm going with a 5.3/4l60E and using my existing 241. Its cable driven though. I'm going to be using the Dakota Digital pass thru VSS pulse generator. Its like 50 bux and will satisfy the PCMs need for VSS and keep my oem gauges functioning. You will have to have your PCM tuned and the VSS parameter changed to accept 8k PPM instead of the 128k PPM it looks for otherwise funny things will happen.

If your K5 came with a TH350 then the crossmember may have to be moved back and I'm not sure about the drive shafts. If it came with a 700R4 then 1" setback plates for the LS engine will put everything in the stock location. Even the trans mount is the same.

For wiring all you need is a PCM and engine harness. If you are getting a DBW engine then its in your best interest to get the pedal and TAC module from the the same vehicle as the engine. Non matching parts can be made to work but i've read it can be a bit more work. I would suggest that any parts you get that were from different vehicles be identified with the year, make, model, and possibly vin to help your tuner make it all work.

PCM controls engine and trans.

Trans harness is integrated with the engine harness and runs directly to the pcm so when obtaining an engine take some extra time to follow the harness back and pull all the way back to the transfer case. It will save you time in the long run.

Here is a pic from lt1swap.com showing the connections made at the trans and t case. Its just 4 plugs.

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[RoryH19]

Thanks.
Hmm, if you are using a cable driven 241 for speedo, it would function as my 208 does.
I may just stay with what I have if the Dakota Digital pass thru will do the trick. Unless I find a good deal on a 241. I've heard they are a little better than the 208.

Yes I have the 305/700R4/np208 setup so the motor mounts you mention will put all in the correct place.

I will also go with a DBC, so the pedal assembly will not be needed.

For the harness connections I see the one for the vss which would go in the t-case and the gray plug for the trans but not sure of the trans range sensor.

Do all 4L60/65e's have these plugs?

Since you have a TBI burb, will you just use your stock fuel tank and sending/pump unit?

 

[Crispy]

Thanks.
Hmm, if you are using a cable driven 241 for speedo, it would function as my 208 does.
I may just stay with what I have if the Dakota Digital pass thru will do the trick. Unless I find a good deal on a 241. I've heard they are a little better than the 208.

Yes I have the 305/700R4/np208 setup so the motor mounts you mention will put all in the correct place.

I will also go with a DBC, so the pedal assembly will not be needed.

For the harness connections I see the one for the vss which would go in the t-case and the gray plug for the trans but not sure of the trans range sensor.

Do all 4L60/65e's have these plugs?

Since you have a TBI burb, will you just use your stock fuel tank and sending/pump unit?

I'm not sure whats better when it comes to transfer cases and thankfully I didnt have to do a lot of research but I do believe the 241 is at least somewhat desirable.

The range sensor is basically to tell the computer what gear the tranny is in. I believe all 4L60/65's have these plugs.

For fuel you can use the stock tank and sender but you have to use a higher pressure pump to supply the LS engine. An AC Delco EP381 is a commonly used unit for swaps in our trucks. It drops right in the place of the TBI pump. You also have to think about what your going to do fuel line-wise where the stock hard lines end. I ended up pulling the fuel lines from the Tahoe and cut them at the frame rail near the filter. I'll be mating the LM7 hard lines to the TBI hard lines. A lot of people use AN fittings but I want to use as many OEM parts as possible.

 

[Camar068]

You can eliminate the range switch on the side of the 4l60e if you like. I had a brand new one sitting there to install but decided to bypass. Fewer components to troubleshoot.