Looking into a new compact car.

[Crispy]

yeah, I wouldn't want a Spark or Sonic either for that matter. They're pretty much disposable cars and I don't think the warranty is all that great compared to other manufactuers.

Agree 100%

My neighbor has a 2012 Cruze and puts it through hell. Aside from regular maintenance there havent been any issues not caused by her accident prone husband haha. Thats a horse of a different color though.

 

[Camar068]

get a 260/280/300 Z and drop an LS in it. Compact enough?

 

[RecklessWOT]

I cannot stress enough to anyone, do not be fooled by Kia/Hyundai. Yes "they've come so far since the '90s" like everyone says, but they're still cheaply made pieces of poorly engineered Korean ****. Unless you're planning on leasing it for 3 years or so, they will not last in the long run, I promise you. I do nor recommend new American cars either, unfortunately. If you want a good reliable car that will get good mileage and run like a top for the next 20 years, get a Toyota or Honda (Nissan has gone downhill to some extent, and as much as I hate to say it Subaru has turned to pure garbage these days plus they never got good mileage, and Mitsubishi was never good in any aspect).

While the Toyota or Honda will be more expensive than the Kia/Hyundai up front, you get what you pay for when it comes to Asian cars. And they hold their value so rediculously well (unlike Korean cars). Think of it as a firearm or a power tool. A Saturday night special will not last long and will not have the fit and finish if a real gun. Harbor freight tools while very cheap and "good enough for most jobs" will not end up in your grandkids toolboxes one day, probably not even yours after being used a couple dozen times. They don't explode the first time you try to use them, but don't go thinking they'll be good tools in the long run.

I have experienced too many Korean cars that were pure junk, and none that were good. I bought a used Hyundai with 100k on it maybe 10-12 years ago, different time I understand, but it was just junk. Sure it never left me stranded, but everything else about it was horrible and honestly can't say a single good thing about it besides the fact that it started every time. My wife bought a brand new Kia in 2011, it was in a junkyard by 2017. I have a few friends that bought them within the last 3-10 years, none of them still own them. Some had outright failures, others just got sick of bringing them in for stupid repairs or dealing with crappy stuff. They're just dumb clunky vehicles that are still to this day engineered like crap. They check off all the boxes for "comparable features" when comparing them to other cars and they cost less so it seems like a good deal, but they're not up to the same quality, noting works quite as good. The backup camera beeps too much, the engine is too rattly, the radio has a dead sounding mid range, the display screen acts glitchy, even the freaking outside thermometer is severely inaccurate, MPG readout works poorly, cruise control won't hold a steady speed, etc. Just the insignificant little things up front, sure they would have been awesome 10-20 years ago but compared t what else is out there they're yesterday's technology and so much less refined they still deal with stupid problems that have been smoothed out by everyone else. Coming from a 40 year old Chevy sure they seem awesome, but check out the comparable *** cars and you'll see what I mean. Lackluster performance and economy, build quality, and comfort when compared to Japanese counterparts as well, very much so. The only person I know that downright likes his Kia is my 83 year old grandfather who can barely see so he rarely drives. He's about to turn in his 3 year lease with about 4500 miles on it, probably 1k of those were when my mom was borrowing it when she came up to visit last year. Of course ANY brand new car will seem nice off the bat, but as soon as it starts getting just a little bit old you'll realize you bought a cheap piece of throwaway junk... Don't do it, please...

 

[75Monza]

I cannot stress enough to anyone, do not be fooled by Kia/Hyundai. Yes "they've come so far since the '90s" like everyone says, but they're still cheaply made pieces of poorly engineered Korean ****. Unless you're planning on leasing it for 3 years or so, they will not last in the long run, I promise you. I do nor recommend new American cars either, unfortunately. If you want a good reliable car that will get good mileage and run like a top for the next 20 years, get a Toyota or Honda (Nissan has gone downhill to some extent, and as much as I hate to say it Subaru has turned to pure garbage these days plus they never got good mileage, and Mitsubishi was never good in any aspect).

While the Toyota or Honda will be more expensive than the Kia/Hyundai up front, you get what you pay for when it comes to Asian cars. And they hold their value so rediculously well (unlike Korean cars). Think of it as a firearm or a power tool. A Saturday night special will not last long and will not have the fit and finish if a real gun. Harbor freight tools while very cheap and "good enough for most jobs" will not end up in your grandkids toolboxes one day, probably not even yours after being used a couple dozen times. They don't explode the first time you try to use them, but don't go thinking they'll be good tools in the long run.

I have experienced too many Korean cars that were pure junk, and none that were good. I bought a used Hyundai with 100k on it maybe 10-12 years ago, different time I understand, but it was just junk. Sure it never left me stranded, but everything else about it was horrible and honestly can't say a single good thing about it besides the fact that it started every time. My wife bought a brand new Kia in 2011, it was in a junkyard by 2017. I have a few friends that bought them within the last 3-10 years, none of them still own them. Some had outright failures, others just got sick of bringing them in for stupid repairs or dealing with crappy stuff. They're just dumb clunky vehicles that are still to this day engineered like crap. They check off all the boxes for "comparable features" when comparing them to other cars and they cost less so it seems like a good deal, but they're not up to the same quality, noting works quite as good. The backup camera beeps too much, the engine is too rattly, the radio has a dead sounding mid range, the display screen acts glitchy, even the freaking outside thermometer is severely inaccurate, MPG readout works poorly, cruise control won't hold a steady speed, etc. Just the insignificant little things up front, sure they would have been awesome 10-20 years ago but compared t what else is out there they're yesterday's technology and so much less refined they still deal with stupid problems that have been smoothed out by everyone else. Coming from a 40 year old Chevy sure they seem awesome, but check out the comparable *** cars and you'll see what I mean. Lackluster performance and economy, build quality, and comfort when compared to Japanese counterparts as well, very much so. The only person I know that downright likes his Kia is my 83 year old grandfather who can barely see so he rarely drives. He's about to turn in his 3 year lease with about 4500 miles on it, probably 1k of those were when my mom was borrowing it when she came up to visit last year. Of course ANY brand new car will seem nice off the bat, but as soon as it starts getting just a little bit old you'll realize you bought a cheap piece of throwaway junk... Don't do it, please...

Yeah, been doing some research and came to same conclusion. Think I'm going to do back to original idea and find me a 2002-2003 Jetta TDI wagon 5 speed manual. I know several people that had the wagon setup and consitantly can get mid 50's for mpg, something about gearing and aerodynamics. I could get close to that with my '98 4 door, around 52 if I drove like a sane person. If I went faster than 64mph then would drop to 46mpg. Didn't like the cloth interior so swapped with a vr6 for leather, then koni's all around and what a difference. Maintenance is a must with a TDI though, timing belt and water pump every 45k period, I used a synth blend change every 2500, never had a problem other than window regulators.

 

[Frankenchevy]

I cannot stress enough to anyone, do not be fooled by Kia/Hyundai. Yes "they've come so far since the '90s" like everyone says, but they're still cheaply made pieces of poorly engineered Korean ****. Unless you're planning on leasing it for 3 years or so, they will not last in the long run, I promise you. I do nor recommend new American cars either, unfortunately. If you want a good reliable car that will get good mileage and run like a top for the next 20 years, get a Toyota or Honda (Nissan has gone downhill to some extent, and as much as I hate to say it Subaru has turned to pure garbage these days plus they never got good mileage, and Mitsubishi was never good in any aspect).

While the Toyota or Honda will be more expensive than the Kia/Hyundai up front, you get what you pay for when it comes to Asian cars. And they hold their value so rediculously well (unlike Korean cars). Think of it as a firearm or a power tool. A Saturday night special will not last long and will not have the fit and finish if a real gun. Harbor freight tools while very cheap and "good enough for most jobs" will not end up in your grandkids toolboxes one day, probably not even yours after being used a couple dozen times. They don't explode the first time you try to use them, but don't go thinking they'll be good tools in the long run.

I have experienced too many Korean cars that were pure junk, and none that were good. I bought a used Hyundai with 100k on it maybe 10-12 years ago, different time I understand, but it was just junk. Sure it never left me stranded, but everything else about it was horrible and honestly can't say a single good thing about it besides the fact that it started every time. My wife bought a brand new Kia in 2011, it was in a junkyard by 2017. I have a few friends that bought them within the last 3-10 years, none of them still own them. Some had outright failures, others just got sick of bringing them in for stupid repairs or dealing with crappy stuff. They're just dumb clunky vehicles that are still to this day engineered like crap. They check off all the boxes for "comparable features" when comparing them to other cars and they cost less so it seems like a good deal, but they're not up to the same quality, noting works quite as good. The backup camera beeps too much, the engine is too rattly, the radio has a dead sounding mid range, the display screen acts glitchy, even the freaking outside thermometer is severely inaccurate, MPG readout works poorly, cruise control won't hold a steady speed, etc. Just the insignificant little things up front, sure they would have been awesome 10-20 years ago but compared t what else is out there they're yesterday's technology and so much less refined they still deal with stupid problems that have been smoothed out by everyone else. Coming from a 40 year old Chevy sure they seem awesome, but check out the comparable *** cars and you'll see what I mean. Lackluster performance and economy, build quality, and comfort when compared to Japanese counterparts as well, very much so. The only person I know that downright likes his Kia is my 83 year old grandfather who can barely see so he rarely drives. He's about to turn in his 3 year lease with about 4500 miles on it, probably 1k of those were when my mom was borrowing it when she came up to visit last year. Of course ANY brand new car will seem nice off the bat, but as soon as it starts getting just a little bit old you'll realize you bought a cheap piece of throwaway junk... Don't do it, please...

I guess everyone has their own experience. We have two Honda’s and both have been problematic. When I met my wife she had a Kia and that thing ran like a top until someone t-boned her. Her mom has the Hyundai version of the same car and it’s only required tires and oil changes.

 

[Doppleganger]

Drive what you want.

 

[skysurfer]

We just picked up our second Subie - a 2005 Forester

Off topic...If you haven't done so already, trash the fabric bra before it does any more damage. I put one of those on my wife's car back in the mid-90s and even though I cleaned/waxed under it every time the car got washed it still screwed up the paint. Little bits of sand and dirt get under those and act like 400 grit sandpaper on your paint. PPF is the only way to go for front-end protection these days.

 

[Doppleganger]

Off topic...If you haven't done so already, trash the fabric bra before it does any more damage. I put one of those on my wife's car back in the mid-90s and even though I cleaned/waxed under it every time the car got washed it still screwed up the paint. Little bits of sand and dirt get under those and act like 400 grit sandpaper on your paint. PPF is the only way to go for front-end protection these days.

It was not in the pics when I bought it but showed up this way - with the new LeBra box in the back. This was the day it showed. Bra came off immediately....never liked them and it blocks the prop rod anyways. Maybe some ricer will want it. Guy that does my tint (was applied 20 min after off loading it) is doing the clear front film this Spring when I get it out for daily use.

 

[RecklessWOT]

You must be registered for see images attach

We just picked up our second Subie - a 2005 Forester - one owner (85 yr old lady - confirmed) and lifelong north Florida ride. Looks showroom in-out. 68k and delivered for <$6k. Upper 20s for mpg, AWD and paid for.

One of my best friends just retired in GA. He and his wife each drive a Kia Sorrento (2016 & 2017) and love them. They have crazy warranties - other than that, I know nothing about them.

Don't get me wrong, I like Subarus, I have one for a daily and have had 2 others in the past. (I absolutely LOVE my daily, it's a 2005 Legacy GT with tons of performance work done, it's fast, handles like it's on rails, and looks good too). My wife also has 2 of them in the past and one of them at least (the Forester) was a solid car. With an '05 at least you still have a good little rig, but when it comes to brand new cars they're junk. The whole Obama era thing where they have to make better mileage each year has forced them to push unproven technology and made them unreliable. Honestly the boxer is a clunky dirty inefficient engine design straight out of the '70s. It has its advantages for sure but in that market it can't hold its own. But it is Subaru's identity so they need to stick with it. So basically they just keep pumping out worse and worse stuff to try to stay relevant. Young kid at work just sold his 2019 crosstrek today actually (special ordered new with a 6spd manual) to that dumb Carvana app for more than it was worth because all of a sudden 2 weeks ago it started chugging oil with 45k on the clock. My mother in law just traded in her 2014 and bought a brand new one in because she loved the wet rubber band feeling of the CVT so much, well now the new one simulates "shift points" so she loses that sloppy feel that she loves so much, but she also loses the MPG gain and still has to deal with the unreliability of that garbage technology. I'm gonna laugh 30 years from now when all cars are AWD and electric and now there's nothing special about Subaru. They need to lose that brand image fast if they want to keep up

 

[RecklessWOT]

I guess everyone has their own experience. We have two Honda’s and both have been problematic. When I met my wife she had a Kia and that thing ran like a top until someone t-boned her. Her mom has the Hyundai version of the same car and it’s only required tires and oil changes.

You have been very lucky(/unlucky) with your extremely uncommon experience. I'm not trying to argue, I do believe you. But Hondas are typically the epitome of reliability and simple design, stuff rarely ever goes wrong with them. Not saying this as a Honda fanboy, I only ever owned one out of the 35+ cars I've had and it was a $400 high mileage POS so I'm not one to speak, but everyone else I've known that owns them from some of my best friends to co-workers to family members, I've literally never known anyone to have reliability issues from a Honda unless they were some young Puerto Rican who thought it was a race car and beat the hell out of it. Can I ask what the issues were? Though I've literally known not a single person who had good luck with a Korean car for more than 5 years max after it was brand new, and even then half the time they were in for warranty work within the first two years.

Hah, also when I met my wife she had a Kia and it ran like a top till someone crashed into ME while I was driving it to work one night. It RAN like a top, but nothing else about it was good. We were actually in the process of trying to sell it and I was so upset about how much work it wound need to make it seem decent enough to get a decent amount of money out of it. It had problems with EVERYTHING and was only like a 6 year old car with about 100k on it, got in a slight accident and it was totaled. I was so glad because we got about 2-3 grand more than I would have been able to sell it for private party. Once again, it never left us stranded, but there is so much more to owning a car besides "hey it still starts and runs!"...

I've never personally jad problems with my Taurus revolver, but I certainly wouldn't try to tell a guy who owns a Smith & Wesson or Ruger that his wheel gun wasn't as good as mine... Even I am smart enough to see the difference in quality and I am a little weary of those who say there is no difference or worse the other way around

 

[HotRodPC]

Yeah, been doing some research and came to same conclusion. Think I'm going to do back to original idea and find me a 2002-2003 Jetta TDI wagon 5 speed manual. I know several people that had the wagon setup and consitantly can get mid 50's for mpg, something about gearing and aerodynamics. I could get close to that with my '98 4 door, around 52 if I drove like a sane person. If I went faster than 64mph then would drop to 46mpg. Didn't like the cloth interior so swapped with a vr6 for leather, then koni's all around and what a difference. Maintenance is a must with a TDI though, timing belt and water pump every 45k period, I used a synth blend change every 2500, never had a problem other than window regulators.

Good Luck with that. I'd love to find one of those Jetta, Golf, Passat whatever in the TDI back in those years. It's true, they do get 48-52mpg highway. Had a friend that got one used by accident of sorts. After he got it running he swore the ODO had to be off because he was consistantly getting 49-51 mpg back and forth to work. He lived rural so traveled 30 miles each every day. He took it on a trip where they had those signs posted for checking odo and it was dead nuts accurate. He always said it was accurate according to mile marker signs but still figured it was off until he hit an odo check area.

 

[Frankenchevy]

Can I ask what the issues were?

Many of the new Hondas (less than 5 years old) are GDI. With a quick search of a Honda Fit forum among other models, you’ll find quite a few people complaining about their GDI engines having issues with bad valves and injectors. The “earth dream” technology engines are particularly notorious.

I’ll reiterate, it’s not a problem particular to Hondas, but all makes with GDI engines...BMW, Mini, Honda, Kia, GM. It’s across the board. All of these companies also make reliable stuff, I’d just steer clear of their models with GDI and stick with MPFI. My post was in reference to the newer stuff as the title of the post was getting “a new compact car”

Your ‘old beater’ Honda and the ‘lean burn’ Hondas into the early 2000s were great cars. However, with cars getting safer(heavier) and demanding higher average MPG for the make, they’re having to do things like GDI.

 

[Doppleganger]

Don't get me wrong, I like Subarus, I have one for a daily and have had 2 others in the past. (I absolutely LOVE my daily, it's a 2005 Legacy GT with tons of performance work done, it's fast, handles like it's on rails, and looks good too). My wife also has 2 of them in the past and one of them at least (the Forester) was a solid car. With an '05 at least you still have a good little rig, but when it comes to brand new cars they're junk. The whole Obama era thing where they have to make better mileage each year has forced them to push unproven technology and made them unreliable. Honestly the boxer is a clunky dirty inefficient engine design straight out of the '70s. It has its advantages for sure but in that market it can't hold its own. But it is Subaru's identity so they need to stick with it. So basically they just keep pumping out worse and worse stuff to try to stay relevant. Young kid at work just sold his 2019 crosstrek today actually (special ordered new with a 6spd manual) to that dumb Carvana app for more than it was worth because all of a sudden 2 weeks ago it started chugging oil with 45k on the clock. My mother in law just traded in her 2014 and bought a brand new one in because she loved the wet rubber band feeling of the CVT so much, well now the new one simulates "shift points" so she loses that sloppy feel that she loves so much, but she also loses the MPG gain and still has to deal with the unreliability of that garbage technology. I'm gonna laugh 30 years from now when all cars are AWD and electric and now there's nothing special about Subaru. They need to lose that brand image fast if they want to keep up

I dont work for Subaru nor have an alter to them in my garage. Its 16 fking years old and paid for. New GM cars are utter sht wrapped around a great drive train...and tens of thousands of $$$. OP sounded like he wanted a cheap DD.....for $13k. I simply suggested a cheaper / reliable solution. Wont happen again.

 

[nabeshin]

Late to the party...

Skimmed most of the thread.

I have owned a 2014 Spark since new, manual transmission. No issues beyond needing a clutch, tires and fluid. Almost 60k miles now, 35-40 mpg. Destroyed the clutch by 30k by not coming to a complete stop whenever reversing from parking spots. My Mini Cooper has survived 100k on a clutch doing that, so go figure. My Spark now has a custom Kevlar clutch with a stiffened pressure plate.

I originally bought the Spark over the Mazda 2 and others in the price bracket because of the sound. The Spark sang at high rpm, and the other seemed to whine like they were wound up too tight, in a bad way. Sound and vibration are part of the experience, as is a manual. Quite fun in combination, you can drive like you stole it and still be under the speed limit.

 

[Bennyt]

Same thing. Just had an almost 20 year old Tahoe last year and a 06 Charger up until a couple years ago and an 07 truck until recently. That stuff all worked, for the most part. Sure switches and mechanical issues here and there. The solid state stuff was, well, solid, and if it isn't you can buy a new gauge cluster or whatever. and 15 years form now the aftermarket will have work-arounds for failing touch screen info systems.
I agree with the "simplicity" of older vehicles, but they're only "simple" because we are all over that learning curve and the next learning curve is on the horizon.

I agree with you about 50%. The problem is that more and more is becoming year and vehicle specific. The beauty of the squarebody is that some of the parts interchange from way back in the 50's until into the 90's. I doubt my Buick or most any other new car has more than 2-5 years of part interchange which makes that new cluster very expensive. I do consider the Buick disposable however I am considering a ZL1 but have concerns about long term maintenance issues and parts availability.

About ten years ago used Ferraris and some other exotics were about the same price as a new Corvette and I was pretty close to pulling the trigger on a few different rides before they tripled in value 3-5 years back. What kept me away was the specialized maintenance and part scarcity. I personally feel like I am seeing that exclusivity, albeit to a much lesser degree, in most newer cars. Maybe I'm a fool and I'll regret not buying the ZL1 in a few years or maybe I'm not wealthy enough to not care about the possibility of a worthless unrepairable car that costs $85k, but for now, I'm too gun-shy.