Liquid in cylinder

[StickyLifter]

I have a 1971 Nova with a 454. It made a loud banging type noise when I tried to start it this spring and didn't run right afterwards. I could hear a noise coming through the carb that made me think it maybe had a lifter issue. I pulled the valve covers off and found the rockers stud for the exhaust valve on number 4 was broken and it appeared like the lifter for the intake valve on number 4 was collapsed. I didn't want to try to lift a 75 pound head of by myself so I hired Coon Creek Customs in Coon Valley, WI (great guys if anybody in WI needs custom work done) to look at it.

They pulled he head off yesterday to see what was going on and found liquid in the cylinder. I have't seen it yet because I life about 35 miles away and was in class yesterday, but they said the liquid didn't look green and didn't feel sticky like coolant. I'm running cast high performance heads from 1969 (3919840 heads). I'm going to have the head magna fluxed and really hope it isn't cracked or if it is cracked it is repairable.

I was thinking about the liquid yesterday after I talked to the owner of the shop. I remembered something that happened last spring. I had a pretty long list of items I wanted to work on before car show season started. I had the car up on Race Ramps because I wanted to try to measure my driveline angles. It was the first hot and humid day of spring but the concrete in my garage was still cold from winter. There was a ton of condensation dripping from the bottom of my car, under the hood, on my tools in my toolbox, etc. I had a lot of liquid coming out of my exhaust when I ran the car to try to figure out what was going on, before I pulled the valve covers. I didn't see how much liquid was in the cylinder, but I'm wondering if the could have been enough condensation to cause this issue.

Here is a picture of my broken rocker stud.

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[Grit dog]

Nope, not a build up of condensation in the head. Afaik anyway.
Pretty much all older vehicles drip condensation out the exhaust though. Nothing to worry about.
I’d say it can only be coolant or oil.

 

[roundeyed sqbdy]

Nope, not a build up of condensation in the head. Afaik anyway.
Pretty much all older vehicles drip condensation out the exhaust though. Nothing to worry about.
I’d say it can only be coolant or oil.

true, and if clear, not sticky..maybe water in radiator burst block...hope not!!

 

[StickyLifter]

I guess time will tell. I'm going to get the head magna fluxed early next week.

 

[Rusty Nail]

What brand / weight oil in that engine?

 

[StickyLifter]

What brand / weight oil in that engine?

Valvoline 10-40.

 

[Rusty Nail]

Nope, not a build up of condensation in the head. Afaik anyway.
Pretty much all older vehicles drip condensation out the exhaust though. Nothing to worry about.
I’d say it can only be coolant or oil.

My first thoughts involved condensation which made me wonder about the breather and the PCV.
Wondered if it was stored outside without an air cleaner..
Then I started wondering about fuel return and then hey you guys!

Did you see the size of that chicken?

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[StickyLifter]

My first thoughts involved condensation which made me wonder about the breather and the PCV.
Wondered if it was stored outside without an air cleaner..
Then I started wondering about fuel return and then hey you guys!

Did you see the size of that chicken?

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

That's a funny video! It's been a long time since I've watched that movie.

It has always been stored in the garage the 20 years I have owned it. I do tend to let it sit for long periods without the air cleaner when I'm working on it, but probably no issues since it's inside.

I really think it's a condensation issue from the weird day last spring, but I'm not sure. I'm hoping to have the head looked at early this week. I want to keep running the cast iron heads for sentimental reasons. I'll switch to aluminum heads and put a different cam and intake on it if the head is bad.

 

[bucket]

Unfortunately, the best thing to do before pulling the head would have been to pull the spark plug and see if liquid shoots out when cranking the engine over. When the head was removed, it is very normal for coolant to run out and pour into a cylinder or two.

You say you ran the engine. Even IF there was enough condensation in that one cylinder to cause hydro locking (which I don't buy into that theory at all) then it would have burned off from the engine heat when you ran it. Which would mean that there was somehow enough condensation in just that one cylinder again, when they pulled the head. Seems highly unlikely.

Also, I've had everything sweat like that in my old garage, many many times in the 10 years I lived there. Crazy amounts of condensation, dripping all over. I never experienced any issues like that. I even pulled the heads off one of my engines on a stand, just to see what it looked like inside. The outside looked like it had just been sprayed with a garden hose, but it was bone dry in the cylinders.

 

[bucket]

Also, did they confirm that the #4 intake lifter was collapsed? If it wasn't, it may have been as simple as a rocker stud failure.

 

[Rusty Nail]

One way or the other this thread needs more pix..amirite?

 

[SquareRoot]

What brand / weight oil in that engine?

You're not gonna ask the million dollar question? Vortec?

 

[StickyLifter]

Also, did they confirm that the #4 intake lifter was collapsed? If it wasn't, it may have been as simple as a rocker stud failure.

I stopped by the shop that is working on the engine this afternoon. One lifter was collapsed and the other had come apart. I didn't think to ask which was which. The intake push rod had a pretty good bend to it.

One other thing the shop owner noticed is the wrong head gaskets were used. I'm don't think this is related to the problem because I've had the car for close to 20 years and it was restored 10 years before I bought it.

The plan is to send both heads to a machine shop to have them magna fluxed and checked to make sure they are "flat". Not sure what the correct term is. Will have the heads milled down to get a higher compression ratio if they are okay.

 

[scrap--metal]

When the head was removed, it is very normal for coolant to run out and pour into a cylinder or two.

Like bucket said, don't sweat the wet cylinder yet. No engine is going to run right with two bunk lifters, a broken rocker stud, and a bent push rod. You may have heard the rocker stud fail this spring.

The plan is to send both heads to a machine shop to have them magna fluxed and checked to make sure they are "flat". Not sure what the correct term is. Will have the heads milled down to get a higher compression ratio if they are okay.

You have a good plan. If there's no need to deck the heads, head gasket thickness can be changed for a minor compression ratio change. Consider that, as decking the heads can sometimes make intakes fit a little different, or not fit at all.

 

[SirRobyn0]

I follow Bucket / Andy's thoughts on this. I cannot tell you the number of times I've pulled a head off of a vehicle and a bit of coolant runs out of the head and into one or more of the cylinders during removal.

If fluid in any of the cylinders was a concern then that should have been tested for BEFORE the cylinder head was removed.

My bet is it was just a rocker stud failure, possible lifter. You mentioned that the wrong head gaskets might have been used but clearly the car ran ok with them. I guess without pictures of the differences or standing there with you it's hard to tell.