K20 pulling 19k lbs...

[PrairieDrifter]

I can remember when NFL linemen were getting up to 300lbs and fans were like "OMG this is amazing!" Then 320lb, 330lb and some at 350lbs.
Aaron Gibson, who played briefly for the Chicago Bears, set the record for the NFL and weighed 410 lbs at the time.
Huge players that were fast and quick. Then it became evident that they could not sustain longevity in the league. Doctors were coming out and noting that the human skeletal frame could not sustain the weight and physical exertion that was being put upon the tendons and ligaments.
You are asking if you can take a 185lb running back to the Golden Corral every day and switch him to nose tackle.
I drive my 73-87s more than anything else I own because they are fun, and I work them often and hard, but even a 1 ton squarebody does not equal the capabilities of a modern 1/2 ton Silverado.

I disagree with the final statement. Maybe a modern 1/2 ton to a k20 would be comparable, mayyyyyybe a single wheel k30 but that's a big big stretch(with a small block) definitely not weight capacity, definitely not a dually.

Everybody thinks they need to tow everything at 80mph. Maybe that comparison, instead in comfort and stock horsepower is more on par.

But as for towing capabilities, not so much. I don't mind driving 55-60 everywhere..

I see so many modern half ton trucks squatted down to the bump stops with empty trailers. If you love your front end floating down the road doing 70+ then the point of all this safety talk is moot.

1/2 ton trucks should stick to small boats, jetskis and atv trailers. HELL even some of the trucks are working past their limits with some of these average sized boats!

Again, I don't get why everyone has to haul ass doing 70+ while towing. Ive seen so many trailer sways, terrible towing etc. people flying past me with 20+ ft trailer minimum these days, while I'm doing 4 over the posted limit.

People are scared of semis, no no, be scared of the rv's/motorhomes, then the work truck douches, then the tow once every three years people, THEN semis.

DONT even get me started on the 40ft campers WITH a boat, pupped onto the camper doing 70+ people are insane.

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

Living in an RV park the last several years, I've learned a few more things about towing and driving big RVs. The people who have the easiest time driving these huge motor homes are those who: A, used to be bus or big rig drivers, or B, have driven them enough to be familiar with how they handle and drive vs.a car or pickup.
Most of the big trailers that come in here, are hauled by one tons of duallies, most from the last 2 generations of GM, Ford and RAM. Some of the smaller ones are towed by half ton full size trucks, but we're talking about trailers under 20' and bumper pull.
When my Dad had his '75 Sierra Classic with its poor underpowered smogger 350, it struggled to pull the 23' Holiday Rambler bumper pull trailer we had. Without the AC being on either! The '78 GMC Heavy Half 350, on regular gas, with headers and dual exhaust, did lots better. When we bought this trailer from my best school friend's parents, they also were selling the '73 square body Burb with 454 that they towed it with. Burb was getting to where it was using oil like all those big blocks did, and buying both was gonna strain the finances. So I guess they sold the Burb to someone else? Over 40 years ago, I don't remember..... I think it was a half ton but coulda been a C20. I didn't know about that stuff at that age.....Our class went on many field trips in that Burb. Was red and white,tan interior IIRC.

 

[Redfish]

Some random Redfish Thoughts on Towing Campers and other heavy things...

I am with @PrairieDrifter on keeping the speed down. Trailer tires are NOT designed for high speeds. Keep the speed reasonable and everything works better.

Horsepower and Torque make towing easier and safer but they are only part of the equation. My '07 Classic GMC was a great truck and it loved a bumper pull. But anything 5th Wheel/Gooseneck affected it more than I liked. Pulling my camper was a 3 way agreement between where I wanted to go, where the truck wanted to go and where the camper wanted to go. We sort of wandered down the road in a semi-controlled direction...My 2019 GMC has a much better chassis and pulls the trailer with more authority.

The tow ratings are fantastic on a modern "1/2 Ton" pickup. I have seen many of them work wonderfully. Poor weight distribution on a trailer, poor choices, and poor maintenance all affect the final outcome. Yes they are wonderful in comparison to the trucks of yester year...but a modern 3/4 or 1 ton is still a better choice if heavy towing is on your menu.

This truck had plenty of motor and transmission but the chassis was overwhelmed:

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This pulled pretty well but I was honestly overloaded. The weight was well past the rating of my truck. I took it slow and took my time. But it still wasn't smart.

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[Dano500]

Sorry for the delay in my response -

It's an '04 2500HD, Duramax/Allison with 3.73 gears. GCW rating is 13,500 on the ball, 15,500 for gooseneck/fifth wheel.

That particular day the plan was to move the tiny house from the back 40 up to the front yard, but then the scope crept to actually taking it via surface streets over to a storage facility.

I did move it one more time from storage to the new owner's location.

K

Nice

 

[Keith Seymore]

Here's what we are doing today.

Sure would be easier to just listen to the radio.

K

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[Dano500]

The truck we had, was built in 1975, when YouTube was only a glimmer in someone's eye. The shop that built it had done at least two prior square body Burbs, and probably done some of the Action Line trucks before that. I know what was done, because I watched and helped my Dad redo most of it. The front crossmember where the motor mounts attach was grafted in from the Cadillac frame; lots of sketchy welding that he had to redo. The transmission crossmember and mount were also damaged and had to be fixed. The original build even used the Cadillac driveshaft with the double Cardan universal joints on each end. This truck's driveline was disassembled by us and we found a bunch of things to fix or re engineer. We were in the process of rebuilding it when we had to relocate our parts store, and it never got fully rebuilt. But I remember the work, because that was the first major repair work I did on a vehicle with Dad.
The amazing thing to me, knowing how rough it was, is that it did run and drive reasonably well. We drove it for a few weeks, every day, while we were assessing and discovering what needed fixing. The first stage was just getting the grunge and oily sludge and slime off everything. I guess a prior owner was afraid it would rust and so they put oil or grease on everything....
And in the current times, there may be parts available to help with this engine swap. In the late 70s and early 80s, you had to know what factory stuff to use, or fabricate something.
There's a member of the GMT 400 forum who put a Cadillac 500 engine in a '95 K1500. His build thread is very detailed, and I've had many discussions with him about various aspects of it. It was not a drop in, plug and play, swap on his truck either, and not just because of the 4wd. He's in the Dakotas so he does need the 4wd!

Yes, I know there is some work involved, but I will leave that up to the shop. I will learn enough about it to ask the right questions though and make sure I'm leaving it in the right hands.

 

[Dano500]

.....

A retired couple spent 5 years and $180,000 converting a dilapidated semitrailer into a 'monster' mobile home with a library, spiral staircase, and hot tub. Take a look inside.

The DIY renovation took five years and $180,000. The couple travel North America in their custom mobile home, which has a hot tub and spiral stairway.

ca.news.yahoo.com

Now THAT is something...

 

[Dano500]

Some random Redfish Thoughts on Towing Campers and other heavy things...

I am with @PrairieDrifter on keeping the speed down. Trailer tires are NOT designed for high speeds. Keep the speed reasonable and everything works better.

Horsepower and Torque make towing easier and safer but they are only part of the equation. My '07 Classic GMC was a great truck and it loved a bumper pull. But anything 5th Wheel/Gooseneck affected it more than I liked. Pulling my camper was a 3 way agreement between where I wanted to go, where the truck wanted to go and where the camper wanted to go. We sort of wandered down the road in a semi-controlled direction...My 2019 GMC has a much better chassis and pulls the trailer with more authority.

The tow ratings are fantastic on a modern "1/2 Ton" pickup. I have seen many of them work wonderfully. Poor weight distribution on a trailer, poor choices, and poor maintenance all affect the final outcome. Yes they are wonderful in comparison to the trucks of yester year...but a modern 3/4 or 1 ton is still a better choice if heavy towing is on your menu.

This truck had plenty of motor and transmission but the chassis was overwhelmed:

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

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This pulled pretty well but I was honestly overloaded. The weight was well past the rating of my truck. I took it slow and took my time. But it still wasn't smart.

You must be registered for see images attach

I guess a wider frame and wider stance makes all the difference.

 

[Bextreme04]

As far as the pin/tongue weight, it isn't 4k+, it is 2.8k, which should be well within payload for the truck, or am I missing something there also?

2800lbs is in no way "well within the payload" for a 3/4 ton truck. The GCVW for the heaviest rated 3/4 ton was 8600lbs. That is wet.. with everything loaded into it.. MAX. I didn't see your SPID sheet, did you ever post it? Do you have a heavy K20 with the 8600lb rating? I believe the standard K20 rating is somewhere around 7200lbs or so. The weight with me in my k25 is right around 5400lbs. So my absolute max additional weight I can put in it would be right around 3200lbs. It does not like it when I do this, but it is capable of it. Braking action is severely degraded. Max tow rating for the K20 was only 6k lbs. I've only ever seen a higher tow rating on the crew cabs.

If you look at the rear frame of a modern truck rated for that kind of payload, then compare it to the dinky frame you are talking about doing this to... you will see why everyone is concerned.

 

[Radiohead]

That semi conversion looks awesome. Enough that I showed Mrs Radiohead because we have had the same conversation before. We are leaning that direction ourselves.

Having put rigs that size into some agonizingly tight places for the moving company, I am almost certain that a rig like that will be limited to certain kinds of places, and having to compete with existing big rigs for parking space won't make many friends in the industry.

You might be surprised just how many places are off limits to the large cars.

 

[Craig Nedrow]

Hauled lots of hay with the truck on the right, (red door,) Ol Blue, K10, did good with about 6000 lbs of trailer and tons of hay, but slow and a dog. Now Blue (left) K20 did better, heaver and better brakes, but still not stellar with the stock 350. 1976 motorhome 454 doner motor, rebuild ( cam bearings, hone bore rings, heads) all new gaskets etc. Probably about 375-400 horse. I like holly's, and it had an afb, (worked good on 350) but a dog on the 454. Swapped Edelbrock oval port air gap intake, and 4160 converted to 4150 (750), electric choke, vac secondaries. Night and day difference. Still not hauling fast, but could, trailer brake controller is very important. Had a guy turn in front of me in a Ford Explorer pulling a US cargo trailer, hit him in the left rear quarter, literally blew up the trailer, it was in pieces. That was with ol' Blue. Bent the bumper some and one fender some, but the Ford.....ugly. Yeah, hard to stop 10,000 lbs on a dime. No I did not get a ticket!!!, felt sorry for the other fellow as the trailer was not his, borrowed.....

 

[Dano500]

2800lbs is in no way "well within the payload" for a 3/4 ton truck. The GCVW for the heaviest rated 3/4 ton was 8600lbs. That is wet.. with everything loaded into it.. MAX. I didn't see your SPID sheet, did you ever post it? Do you have a heavy K20 with the 8600lb rating? I believe the standard K20 rating is somewhere around 7200lbs or so. The weight with me in my k25 is right around 5400lbs. So my absolute max additional weight I can put in it would be right around 3200lbs. It does not like it when I do this, but it is capable of it. Braking action is severely degraded. Max tow rating for the K20 was only 6k lbs. I've only ever seen a higher tow rating on the crew cabs.

If you look at the rear frame of a modern truck rated for that kind of payload, then compare it to the dinky frame you are talking about doing this to... you will see why everyone is concerned.

Thanks for the input, but in my previous responses, I had mentioned changing what needed to be changed and not suggesting to do it with current set up, but I sure did read the payload capacity wrong for the springs and of course the ultimate problem of the frame. Hard to find good info on these trucks.

I didn't see the codes in the glove box, so I don't know what this thing came with. It does have the 13" drums and 8 pack leaf springs, if that means anything at all. lol

 

[Dano500]

Hauled lots of hay with the truck on the right, (red door,) Ol Blue, K10, did good with about 6000 lbs of trailer and tons of hay, but slow and a dog. Now Blue (left) K20 did better, heaver and better brakes, but still not stellar with the stock 350. 1976 motorhome 454 doner motor, rebuild ( cam bearings, hone bore rings, heads) all new gaskets etc. Probably about 375-400 horse. I like holly's, and it had an afb, (worked good on 350) but a dog on the 454. Swapped Edelbrock oval port air gap intake, and 4160 converted to 4150 (750), electric choke, vac secondaries. Night and day difference. Still not hauling fast, but could, trailer brake controller is very important. Had a guy turn in front of me in a Ford Explorer pulling a US cargo trailer, hit him in the left rear quarter, literally blew up the trailer, it was in pieces. That was with ol' Blue. Bent the bumper some and one fender some, but the Ford.....ugly. Yeah, hard to stop 10,000 lbs on a dime. No I did not get a ticket!!!, felt sorry for the other fellow as the trailer was not his, borrowed.....

You pulled some serious weight with it though... Nice.

 

[Blue Ox]

Well, THAT was an interesting read.

To the OP, please understand that we're trying to help, and that none of us was born knowing this stuff. We all had to learn it. You can learn it too

That being said, you have a lot of learning to do. For me, I've always enjoyed adding to my knowledge base and I've benefitted from all the knowledge I've gained in more ways than just knowing facts.

So, to start you on your journey I'm going to suggest you check out the GM reference library on this forum. Particularly this thread:

https://www.gmsquarebody.com/threads/1985-gm-towing-guide-and-1981-dealer-towing-video.16699/

You also need to go the the GM Heritage Center and download the specs for your truck. They are quite comprehensive and include a lot of arcane data like frame modulus and power teams that were published to assist dealers and buyers to spec a truck that could safely and reliability perform the tasks for which it was purchased.

Take time and wade through them and you'll start to put the pieces together as to why the engineers did what they did. Don't dismiss or second-guess the engineers. GM spent stupid money on the design of these trucks, and other than cost there was an engineering reason for the things they did.

Now, to the offensive part.

IMHO you're trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear (Gawd I sound old) and you're going to invest far more in time, labor and money than a correctly spec'd tow vehicle, or more suitable trailer would cost and all you're going to end up with is a cobbled, unreliable liability that's likely to put you in the same boat as Stockton Rush (see what I did there?) on the list of inventors killed by their own inventions.

There's nothing wrong with a mental exercise. It's good for stretching the wrinkles out of your brain. But please leave this one in the R&D stage.

 

[Dano500]

Well, THAT was an interesting read.

To the OP, please understand that we're trying to help, and that none of us was born knowing this stuff. We all had to learn it. You can learn it too

That being said, you have a lot of learning to do. For me, I've always enjoyed adding to my knowledge base and I've benefitted from all the knowledge I've gained in more ways than just knowing facts.

So, to start you on your journey I'm going to suggest you check out the GM reference library on this forum. Particularly this thread:

https://www.gmsquarebody.com/threads/1985-gm-towing-guide-and-1981-dealer-towing-video.16699/

You also need to go the the GM Heritage Center and download the specs for your truck. They are quite comprehensive and include a lot of arcane data like frame modulus and power teams that were published to assist dealers and buyers to spec a truck that could safely and reliability perform the tasks for which it was purchased.

Take time and wade through them and you'll start to put the pieces together as to why the engineers did what they did. Don't dismiss or second-guess the engineers. GM spent stupid money on the design of these trucks, and other than cost there was an engineering reason for the things they did.

Now, to the offensive part.

IMHO you're trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear (Gawd I sound old) and you're going to invest far more in time, labor and money than a correctly spec'd tow vehicle, or more suitable trailer would cost and all you're going to end up with is a cobbled, unreliable liability that's likely to put you in the same boat as Stockton Rush (see what I did there?) on the list of inventors killed by their own inventions.

There's nothing wrong with a mental exercise. It's good for stretching the wrinkles out of your brain. But please leave this one in the R&D stage.

hahaha No, I really appreciate yours and the others' advice; really. I got the idea because I purchased the damn heavy fifth wheel and did not realize the type of truck i would need to take it on weekend trips and I have no desire to spend $60k, nor even have a dually as my daily driver, nor have a payment for a 2010, or so capable truck along with my daily driver payment, hence forth, the idea was born, but did understand quickly that it wouldn't work. Oh well.

Thanks for the link though! I will take a look.