Frame fix for hitch?
- Thread starter Rooster81
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RanchWelder
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Is this a full restoration or can it get mid-evil looking?
The bottom rivets on your cross member may be fractured, cracked or broken where you cannot see them.
You may be best off removing the rivets, removing the perches and considering some of the options below...
Then straightening or re fabricating your cross member and bolting and/or welding the frame square again and then re mount your perches or go with a shackle fil unit for new springs and/or ride height options.
Head over to your favorite steel fabrication shop and buy 1/16" Plates, many shapes and sizes... 24" to 8" x 3 ft plates work out... This can be looked at like a blessing, because you are in the perfect stage to box and weld the entire frame.
This is the pretty way to do it, for a molded frame restoration...
Your version does not have to look as formal to be very strong...
These inner box forms look like the home run, however defects in your old truck will be difficult to match these perfect...
Lots of hammering and possibility the frame is bent too far to use them. They look cool though... if they are made from your pattern they would work:
Doing the Bandaid (Below) adds strength, especially along the sides if you intend to mount another hitch someday... Keep in mind, only some of the bolts holes are needed, the rest are there so your rear end crumples under stress during collision. You can make this stronger, if you avoid the stock bumper and go heavy duty back for six feet towards the cab... If you change the frame dimensions, at the rear in any way, you'll have to account for the spacers and struts to be cut down and re drilled so the stock parts don't change your profile and body to bumper lines.
These can be added down each side... especially where the outer frame has bent/warped, from being over stressed, but they are not the best solution :
This outer slip set (Below) is for a Ford, and goes on the out side, where your perches are now. These would help your ride a bunch.
You can see how it's made using a sheet metal brake, so it surrounds the entire frame section, properly before welding and bolting it up. These are for the rotten frame rails the Ford's suffer from over the rear wheels, where the leaf springs perches can bend/break through the rusted sides.
This is not too expensive to have made at a sheet metal shop ^^^ with a quality brake.
The brake to do this ^^^ is $5000.00 used. Thick metal = expensive brake.
Cut some cardboard templates and have them fabricated.
The further you can plate the underside after hammering or cutting out the defect on your lower flanges and rivets for the cross member, and the closer you get to re-creating the box towards the fuel tank, the better. Then fit your crossmember or have a new one fabricated.
The inside plates, boxing the frame after the outside has been made good really make it stronger. But in order to slip these on, your rivets will have to go. Everything re drilled carefully, Bolted back up. It's not hard really, just time consuming. Buy good bits a good grinder and a dozen wheels, cutting discs and sanding discs, to start. the large 42oz hammer will be needed to beat those rivets out. Some gold grade 8 bolts will look cool too.
The springs can splay 1/4" over 42-56" without too much fuss, to use these, however careful realignment is required and small moves must be symmetrical.
These box frames do not go all the way to the front of the rear springs, so the front perches will be narrower, by just a lil' bit. The U Bolts may have to be realigned, just a little to square everything up, unless you shim the springs at the front perches, the same amount. Your center support may have to be replaced, if it's been twisted. Everything can be fixed. Measure everything twice. Don't touch the U-Bolts unless you have to or unless you think they may have shifted, when your frame was damaged.
There is no rule saying the plates have to be continuos. You can skip every 6-8 inches and use small plates with gaps 12" wide, if fabricating is to difficult or the wiring needs room to loom. Can't afford long plates, use small plates. Adding as few as ten 8-12" plates to any frame, on each side, will strengthen the frame and increase load capacity and ride stability. You can do this on the cheap. Especially where the frame bends around wheels... you'll see buckling when they made the frame. It's never perfect and will show ripples from stress.
This will help a lot, if you plan on using a hitch later. 6000 lbs tongue is all your 1/2 ton GM frame was rated at. Your lucky the entire frame did not bend before and after the center crossmember... the washers must have been thin to pull out. You got lucky.
(Unless the frame is actually bent behind the cross member and your pictures are hiding it...).
My fix was less pretty because I could not repair or reinforce with the fuel tank and body still mounted, the way you are able to do now.
I'll post pics of what I did to turn the entire thing into one solid steel unit tomorrow...
Do a search for GM Frame Boxing Plates and find scrap metal plates to start cutting and fitting. Any welding shop has a scrap bin.
Most of the scrap was paid for when it was sold for the original job. Don't negotiate too hard though, steel prices are through the roof.
Just remember, every hole has to match or go bigger to use the original frame holes... where there's rivets, your plate has to be cut with a hole saw and preferably welded, small welds, spaced apart never creating too much heat any one spot. Every wire rout needs to be planned ahead...
Your connectors need to fit through the holes, the fuel lines need to be located for the bends exactly right, or they will rub... The inner frame hose clamps and mounting screws will get covered up. Drilling small holes for zip ties can work. Designing everything so old lines can be replaced some day, is another thing.
Big holes and gaps can be your friend. They do not have to be this fancy to work...
Many builders go over the top and weld custom internal fittings, welded nuts and hidden solid brake lines, plumbed through the frame. Your imagination is the limit.
He's ^^^ going to tig or mig this entire thing with a solid weld, small welds spaced apart at a time. It's likely a race application. See the hole on top? Might have to get a wrench under there... unless it already has a nut welded inside we can't see...
You weld a spot or 2 on a single plate and have a lemon aid, then mount a different plate and start a few spots on it... then weld a 3rd plate, 2 spots only, tac each other plate 2 spots only. (You will need to borrow a few huge C-Clamps... they are $150.00 each, for good ones...).
Repeat, never over heating anything... If it takes a week or 2 to make it nice, it was done correctly. Drill small holes first, lube the bits and buy good drills for every size you need to fit. If you mess up, break out the Dremel and take your time fixing a mis aligned hole. Do not side ream with your good bits.
I recommend finding a friend with big C-Clamps and a good welder, who knows what he or she is doing. You make the pieces with your grinder and number them, your friend comes over for lemon aid and welds. Buy Big Steaks and mow his lawn for months if necessary...
If you can afford a 110v inverter multi process welder with a low amp plasma cutter, it will make the job much easier.
Please be careful and if welding or cutting is not your skill set, get some qualified help and professional training.
You can die using the cheapest welder from HF, if you don't know how to protect your heart.
The plasma cutter will take fingers off in seconds.
The grinder Will eventually make you bleed... no matter what your skill set... always wear gloves and eye protection.
You can go blind from sparks and flash. If you stand in water, spill your lemonade... without proper safety shoes, gloves and leathers on... and electrical short occurs, your dead.
People have died wiping the sweat from their brow, or adjusting their metal frame glasses out of reflex, welding for 30 years... or a single hour.
Verifying your life insurance policy is current before you attempt to use high voltage, might be the first thing to do, for your family.
When welder voltage hits you, from your left hand to your right, with your ticker in the middle, it could be the last thing you see.
*These pictures were sourced off the web. I'll post some of my own tomorrow.
This thread is getting me geared up to do a body off Box Frame mod to mine.
Hope this answers your question with options you can use and drive safe. Your rivets might be bad...
The bottom rivets on your cross member may be fractured, cracked or broken where you cannot see them.
You may be best off removing the rivets, removing the perches and considering some of the options below...
Then straightening or re fabricating your cross member and bolting and/or welding the frame square again and then re mount your perches or go with a shackle fil unit for new springs and/or ride height options.
Head over to your favorite steel fabrication shop and buy 1/16" Plates, many shapes and sizes... 24" to 8" x 3 ft plates work out... This can be looked at like a blessing, because you are in the perfect stage to box and weld the entire frame.
You must be registered for see images attach
This is the pretty way to do it, for a molded frame restoration...
Your version does not have to look as formal to be very strong...
These inner box forms look like the home run, however defects in your old truck will be difficult to match these perfect...
Lots of hammering and possibility the frame is bent too far to use them. They look cool though... if they are made from your pattern they would work:
You must be registered for see images attach
Doing the Bandaid (Below) adds strength, especially along the sides if you intend to mount another hitch someday... Keep in mind, only some of the bolts holes are needed, the rest are there so your rear end crumples under stress during collision. You can make this stronger, if you avoid the stock bumper and go heavy duty back for six feet towards the cab... If you change the frame dimensions, at the rear in any way, you'll have to account for the spacers and struts to be cut down and re drilled so the stock parts don't change your profile and body to bumper lines.
These can be added down each side... especially where the outer frame has bent/warped, from being over stressed, but they are not the best solution :
You must be registered for see images attach
This outer slip set (Below) is for a Ford, and goes on the out side, where your perches are now. These would help your ride a bunch.
You can see how it's made using a sheet metal brake, so it surrounds the entire frame section, properly before welding and bolting it up. These are for the rotten frame rails the Ford's suffer from over the rear wheels, where the leaf springs perches can bend/break through the rusted sides.
You must be registered for see images attach
This is not too expensive to have made at a sheet metal shop ^^^ with a quality brake.
The brake to do this ^^^ is $5000.00 used. Thick metal = expensive brake.
Cut some cardboard templates and have them fabricated.
The further you can plate the underside after hammering or cutting out the defect on your lower flanges and rivets for the cross member, and the closer you get to re-creating the box towards the fuel tank, the better. Then fit your crossmember or have a new one fabricated.
The inside plates, boxing the frame after the outside has been made good really make it stronger. But in order to slip these on, your rivets will have to go. Everything re drilled carefully, Bolted back up. It's not hard really, just time consuming. Buy good bits a good grinder and a dozen wheels, cutting discs and sanding discs, to start. the large 42oz hammer will be needed to beat those rivets out. Some gold grade 8 bolts will look cool too.
The springs can splay 1/4" over 42-56" without too much fuss, to use these, however careful realignment is required and small moves must be symmetrical.
These box frames do not go all the way to the front of the rear springs, so the front perches will be narrower, by just a lil' bit. The U Bolts may have to be realigned, just a little to square everything up, unless you shim the springs at the front perches, the same amount. Your center support may have to be replaced, if it's been twisted. Everything can be fixed. Measure everything twice. Don't touch the U-Bolts unless you have to or unless you think they may have shifted, when your frame was damaged.
There is no rule saying the plates have to be continuos. You can skip every 6-8 inches and use small plates with gaps 12" wide, if fabricating is to difficult or the wiring needs room to loom. Can't afford long plates, use small plates. Adding as few as ten 8-12" plates to any frame, on each side, will strengthen the frame and increase load capacity and ride stability. You can do this on the cheap. Especially where the frame bends around wheels... you'll see buckling when they made the frame. It's never perfect and will show ripples from stress.
This will help a lot, if you plan on using a hitch later. 6000 lbs tongue is all your 1/2 ton GM frame was rated at. Your lucky the entire frame did not bend before and after the center crossmember... the washers must have been thin to pull out. You got lucky.
(Unless the frame is actually bent behind the cross member and your pictures are hiding it...).
My fix was less pretty because I could not repair or reinforce with the fuel tank and body still mounted, the way you are able to do now.
I'll post pics of what I did to turn the entire thing into one solid steel unit tomorrow...
Do a search for GM Frame Boxing Plates and find scrap metal plates to start cutting and fitting. Any welding shop has a scrap bin.
Most of the scrap was paid for when it was sold for the original job. Don't negotiate too hard though, steel prices are through the roof.
Just remember, every hole has to match or go bigger to use the original frame holes... where there's rivets, your plate has to be cut with a hole saw and preferably welded, small welds, spaced apart never creating too much heat any one spot. Every wire rout needs to be planned ahead...
Your connectors need to fit through the holes, the fuel lines need to be located for the bends exactly right, or they will rub... The inner frame hose clamps and mounting screws will get covered up. Drilling small holes for zip ties can work. Designing everything so old lines can be replaced some day, is another thing.
Big holes and gaps can be your friend. They do not have to be this fancy to work...
Many builders go over the top and weld custom internal fittings, welded nuts and hidden solid brake lines, plumbed through the frame. Your imagination is the limit.
You must be registered for see images attach
He's ^^^ going to tig or mig this entire thing with a solid weld, small welds spaced apart at a time. It's likely a race application. See the hole on top? Might have to get a wrench under there... unless it already has a nut welded inside we can't see...
You weld a spot or 2 on a single plate and have a lemon aid, then mount a different plate and start a few spots on it... then weld a 3rd plate, 2 spots only, tac each other plate 2 spots only. (You will need to borrow a few huge C-Clamps... they are $150.00 each, for good ones...).
Repeat, never over heating anything... If it takes a week or 2 to make it nice, it was done correctly. Drill small holes first, lube the bits and buy good drills for every size you need to fit. If you mess up, break out the Dremel and take your time fixing a mis aligned hole. Do not side ream with your good bits.
I recommend finding a friend with big C-Clamps and a good welder, who knows what he or she is doing. You make the pieces with your grinder and number them, your friend comes over for lemon aid and welds. Buy Big Steaks and mow his lawn for months if necessary...
If you can afford a 110v inverter multi process welder with a low amp plasma cutter, it will make the job much easier.
Please be careful and if welding or cutting is not your skill set, get some qualified help and professional training.
You can die using the cheapest welder from HF, if you don't know how to protect your heart.
The plasma cutter will take fingers off in seconds.
The grinder Will eventually make you bleed... no matter what your skill set... always wear gloves and eye protection.
You can go blind from sparks and flash. If you stand in water, spill your lemonade... without proper safety shoes, gloves and leathers on... and electrical short occurs, your dead.
People have died wiping the sweat from their brow, or adjusting their metal frame glasses out of reflex, welding for 30 years... or a single hour.
Verifying your life insurance policy is current before you attempt to use high voltage, might be the first thing to do, for your family.
When welder voltage hits you, from your left hand to your right, with your ticker in the middle, it could be the last thing you see.
*These pictures were sourced off the web. I'll post some of my own tomorrow.
This thread is getting me geared up to do a body off Box Frame mod to mine.
Hope this answers your question with options you can use and drive safe. Your rivets might be bad...
Last edited:
RecklessWOT
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Just be careful to leave some provisions for drainage. A mostly boxed frame will give a place for dirt to get into, then add moisture and you now have a sponge sitting inside your frame slowly rotting it out. If you live somewhere road salt is used in the winter the problem is now 100 times worse. You'll want to leave plenty of space so you can get in there with a hose or pressure washer every so often.
Toyotas have pretty much always had boxed frames until this most recent generation a handful of years ago which has a mostly open c-channel frame now. Remember just a few years ago the HUGE recall that spanned like 20 model years worth of trucks because the frames were all rotting out? Lots sitting full of <10 year old Tacomas waiting to get new frames installed at the dealer, anything too old just being bought back as a write off. Yeah those old trucks were dubbed indestructible and I can attest to their abuse-taking ability, their only enemy was rot and that was a common one thanks partially to frame design.
Boxed frames are much stronger and would be a HUGE upgrade to a square's flimsy frame, but care would need to be taken to avoid a breeding ground for rust. Don't just start slapping plates everywhere all willy-nilly. Leave some openings down low for all that junk to flow back out of
Toyotas have pretty much always had boxed frames until this most recent generation a handful of years ago which has a mostly open c-channel frame now. Remember just a few years ago the HUGE recall that spanned like 20 model years worth of trucks because the frames were all rotting out? Lots sitting full of <10 year old Tacomas waiting to get new frames installed at the dealer, anything too old just being bought back as a write off. Yeah those old trucks were dubbed indestructible and I can attest to their abuse-taking ability, their only enemy was rot and that was a common one thanks partially to frame design.
Boxed frames are much stronger and would be a HUGE upgrade to a square's flimsy frame, but care would need to be taken to avoid a breeding ground for rust. Don't just start slapping plates everywhere all willy-nilly. Leave some openings down low for all that junk to flow back out of
Ricko1966
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I personally think boxing the frame is over kill for fixing that. But I will share with everyone the easy way to make your box plate patterns. Lay a piece of cardboard across the area you want to box,now take a hammer and pound on the card board in the are where you think the frame rail edges are. The hammer and edge of the frame rail will cut the cardboard into a pattern,specific to what you are working on. Imagine a cookie cutter and dough,the frame rail edges is the cookie cutter the cardboard is the Dough. Fixing the frame rail in that pic I'd cut a piece of plate big enough to cover the inside of the bottom of the frame rail. I'd plug weld it from the bottom and perimeter weld the top and Redrill my bolt holes.
Last edited:
Ricko1966
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@RanchWelder your last pic where you show the hole where a nut may have to go? Been there done that there was no way to hold a nut to start it with anything from the angle I had to go in from. After much frustration I super glued a nut to my index finger tip,held my finger in place and started the bolt then pulled most of my finger back off the nut.
RanchWelder
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Ricko1966 we agree on a bunch of stuff and I'm wrong a bunch... we cannot see the rest of the frame... and I'll wager there's more to the story...
We can't see... I'll bet one side ripped out before the other... and the side which blew the rivet was hanging on last...
The right front tire was probably off the ground when the right bottom rivet sheared off the frame... last to break loose...
Truck was canting down the road on 3 wheels for a while... Swerving off the road likely...
The rivet left in a hurry...
My advice is drill out the rivets on the engine cross mount too. Square it all up from scratch. Box it or not, your steel is thin, there's obvious rust...
It's bent... It's broken...
Thread: "What is the correct way to fix this?..."
You could try to modify the body mounts to fit on this frame:
1947-1954 Chassis Brand New Complete
Sale page says: No Welder (or Welder opinion) required...
We can't see... I'll bet one side ripped out before the other... and the side which blew the rivet was hanging on last...
The right front tire was probably off the ground when the right bottom rivet sheared off the frame... last to break loose...
Truck was canting down the road on 3 wheels for a while... Swerving off the road likely...
The rivet left in a hurry...
My advice is drill out the rivets on the engine cross mount too. Square it all up from scratch. Box it or not, your steel is thin, there's obvious rust...
It's bent... It's broken...
Thread: "What is the correct way to fix this?..."
You could try to modify the body mounts to fit on this frame:
1947-1954 Chassis Brand New Complete
You must be registered for see images attach
Sale page says: No Welder (or Welder opinion) required...
Last edited:
RanchWelder
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This one:
Link: Frame with Holes
This guys frame is ruined...
Is this what happens during a restoration when the misses get's the credit card bill... ?
This guys hitch bolts did not pull out the bottom flange, (Yet), ...but his rivets might be seeing some stress:
(Yes ... Found one with a Bow Tie...) His frame is definitely NOT boxed, either... it's bent.
(*Kids are in back screaming because the doors won't open and the windows will no longer roll down...).
Hope your not upset with me, Rooster81...
Just keeping it real and fun, till you come back with pictures and a square in a few spots on your frame...
Do hope you can get it fixed good enough for your intended purpose.
Link: Frame with Holes
You must be registered for see images attach
This guys frame is ruined...
Is this what happens during a restoration when the misses get's the credit card bill... ?
You must be registered for see images attach
This guys hitch bolts did not pull out the bottom flange, (Yet), ...but his rivets might be seeing some stress:
You must be registered for see images attach
(Yes ... Found one with a Bow Tie...) His frame is definitely NOT boxed, either... it's bent.
(*Kids are in back screaming because the doors won't open and the windows will no longer roll down...).
Hope your not upset with me, Rooster81...
Just keeping it real and fun, till you come back with pictures and a square in a few spots on your frame...
Do hope you can get it fixed good enough for your intended purpose.
Last edited:
Ricko1966
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@RanchWelder you may very well be right,I don't know without seeing more than what I saw. That's not even a pic of his damage is it?
RanchWelder
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RecklessWOT
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I see no reason not to, it's your truck lol
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If you’re not putting a hitch on it, who cares? If you’re doing a nut n bolt frame off resto I could see the above concern being valid. But not, in your case, based on the location (not visual and not structural) and intended use (no hitch).
The damage looks somewhere between or combined, tore the frame/bad gas axe job.
If you want to fix it structurally to mount a hitch, just weld a plate over the damage, on the opposite side of the frame that the hitch mounts to and re-drill the proper holes.
If you want a cosmetic fix, clean up the problem area to a replacement piece you can cut to fit, weld it into the same plane as the frame, grind, finish and paint.
Bennyt
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Check CL for totaled trucks being parted out and buy pieces of the frame. This to me looks like a minor repair unless I am missing something? Where are you located? I see ads on CL regularly and tons of people have shortened their frames from long bed to shortbed so should be easy to find.
