Flex plate questions.

[Turt13]

I'm about to replace my flex plate. It chewed up a new starter in less then a week.
I had to rush putting in tthe new starter, and honestly was my first, so I know it wasn't shimmed quite right. Didnt have time to take off the bell housing to inspect the flex plate either. All that together means a new starter ruined, and the final nail in the coffin for the flex plate.
I can get the cheapo one for $20, or a HD one, same brand, for $40, anyone have experience with the HD one? Leaning towards that cuz being a jew when it comes to parts recently hasn't faired to well.
I plan on dropping the rear shaft, front shaft, unbolting the t case cross member, taking out the tranny to block bolts and sliding it all back while using some all tread to keep it lined up. I never have done an operation like this, so tidbits, advise, and hearing your experience with this would be greatly beneficial. Also haven't looked up the tq requirements, so if you know em off hand..
I also plan on drilling out the bolt that is on the block for the t case support. Probably will have to drop the header for better clearance. And there is a bolt for the tranny to block that is missing. They are 3/8-16, 1 1/4", correct? I hope it's missing and not still in there broke off. Also seems to be a hole at the back of the block, above where the top of the tranny mates. It may be my oil leak I can't seem to locate. Can't get a eye on it though. My new cheapo header gasket isn't going to survive I'm sure, anyone have any leads on 'reuseable' ones? That won't break the piggy bank.

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[Salty Crusty]

That ring gear is a long ways from being done, you just need to get the starter engaging fully. If you do replace it, pick up a good used one from a pick-a-part, there are millions of 'em that have never given anyone any problem. Good thing is they're easy to remove after somebody has gone to the trouble of removing the transmission.

But, if you insist on replacing it, I use floor jacks to get everything lifted slightly, then I use 2" tow straps around the frame on each side and under the trans and transfer case, tighten them good. This lets the trans and transfer case hang in close to the right position and I get the damned jack out of the way after the bellhousing bolts are removed. You won't need to get them too far back, less than 6" will give you full access to all of the torque converter bolts. If possible, leave the transfer case bolted up and just unbolt the crossmember so you can slide it back and all you'll have to support is the front.

Buy yourself a flexplate turning tool. Use it once and you'll wonder why it took so long.

I've done this **** so many times that it hurts my hands just thinking about the fun you're embarking on. Best advice I have is that if you can keep everything up and close to where it needs to be, you'll save yourself a world of grief. Trying to lift a transfer case and transmission into place is a real bitch. The last one I did had a 4L80E and BW 4401 case. I still wake up at night sometimes, whimpering and mumbling, "please don't make me do it!". I had to take that one all the way out and then raise it back in place by myself. On the damned ground with the truck jacked up as high as I could get it.

Sometimes it makes me wish I was rich and could pay somebody else to do this for me. I've never had than luxury, though.

 

[HotRodPC]

I'd agree with Salth that the Flex appears to still be functional. It's not the flex plate at fault for chewing up the starter. Sounds like the starter needed shimmed and wasn't so the flex plate was allowed to tear it up. I'd just replace the starter and shim it properly and carry on. Unless you're just wanting to punish yourself for not installing it properly in the first place.

 

[bucket]

Agreed. Replace the starter and shim it properly, then ride off into the sunset.

 

[Turt13]

$40 for a starter wasted, cuz I didnt take the time or go back and fix it as soon as we got home is a hell of a lot less then trying to do the flex plate and messing more **** up.
Saves me more then $.
I couldn't get better pictures of the flex plate because I didnt have the right tools to get the bellhousing cover out the way. It seemed pretty chewed up by feel, not nearly what the starter looks like. Been that way for a week now with daily driving, think that plate is still gonna be able to last a while?
Dont ask me how I know, but someone accidentally shifted this truck, going up a hill at 55, with a decent load, from d to r, for a fleeting moment before it was returned to d. Herd that it was about to go into r too. And I have had a kinda knocking sound, tingling sound from the back of the motor, not thinking its vavle train related either, but could a money shift as described cause misalignment issues? N that cause a racket? Proably did more damage then I'd like to think about. Been Thinking since I learned this happened, that's what cause the t case support bolt that goes to the block to get shredded off. May also be the root of my rear output making a stream out of atf. That and the support not being attached. I will remove the house I g cover completely when I do the starter this time for better pics of it. Get another look and yalls input. I dont want to replace the flex plate if I dont have to. But i dont want to buy a 3rd starter, either. I ain't no master mechanic, in fact the opposite. But I thought chevy was said to be easy to work on, I never had this many issues with my bmws. Weird.

That ring gear is a long ways from being done, you just need to get the starter engaging fully. If you do replace it, pick up a good used one from a pick-a-part, there are millions of 'em that have never given anyone any problem. Good thing is they're easy to remove after somebody has gone to the trouble of removing the transmission.

But, if you insist on replacing it, I use floor jacks to get everything lifted slightly, then I use 2" tow straps around the frame on each side and under the trans and transfer case, tighten them good. This lets the trans and transfer case hang in close to the right position and I get the damned jack out of the way after the bellhousing bolts are removed. You won't need to get them too far back, less than 6" will give you full access to all of the torque converter bolts. If possible, leave the transfer case bolted up and just unbolt the crossmember so you can slide it back and all you'll have to support is the front.

Buy yourself a flexplate turning tool. Use it once and you'll wonder why it took so long.

I've done this **** so many times that it hurts my hands just thinking about the fun you're embarking on. Best advice I have is that if you can keep everything up and close to where it needs to be, you'll save yourself a world of grief. Trying to lift a transfer case and transmission into place is a real bitch. The last one I did had a 4L80E and BW 4401 case. I still wake up at night sometimes, whimpering and mumbling, "please don't make me do it!". I had to take that one all the way out and then raise it back in place by myself. On the damned ground with the truck jacked up as high as I could get it.

Sometimes it makes me wish I was rich and could pay somebody else to do this for me. I've never had than luxury, though.

Love this comment, btw.

 

[Grit dog]

Not to be rude, but you should have stuck with the for sale sign repair method weeks ago.
As far as it being more problematic than your bmw, that is more a function of the truck being a total basket case to start with, whereas the bimmer must not have been.
You can’t expect an almost 40 year old vehicle of any brand or model that appears to have suffered the neglect that one has, to not be a basket case.
Self inflicted issues also don’t help, but that’s how we learn. We’ve all had to gain that experience somewhere, somehow.
FWIW, you can engage the bendix without engaging the starter motor to check how the bendix gear mates with the flex plate.
It’s also possible that, if the old starter wasn’t mis aligned that the new one could be dimensionally “off”. Old reman parts can get passed through with damage and put back out for sale. Happens all the time. QC on remans is horrible in my experience.
Good luck man. I’d try aligning a starter before dropping the trans just to have the same problem over again.

 

[Grit dog]

You and yours and your lives will be much easier if you end the saga of this truck in your life, imo.

 

[bucket]

Damn, harsh. Lol

 

[Rusty Nail]

Aint no way in hell I could even begin to consider lettin that truck whup me.

Turt.

Dude slow down man. Take a load off, have a beverage.

That was a wildly loaded post! Everywhere from oil leaks you cant find to starter shims to transfer case mounting bolts.
Dude WOAH.

One thing at a time. Youve got WAY TOO MUCH goin on!

DAMNIT i hit reply already but im not finished.

You installed that distributor, right?

There is a round gasket that goes underneath it...if you didn't use one it's the source of the oil leak.

See? Not hard.it is just nuts and bolts man - they only go together one way. You can do it Waterboy.

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The oil pressure sending unit deal is back there too, by the distributor. Sometimes they leak at their seams. Again, not a big deal.

Moving forward.
Sbc starters don't require shims. They weren't delivered that way and it looks suspect to me.
Why don't you try it without shim?
Maybe that will also help.
Some monkey put it in there. Take it out and throw it away.
Now youre ahead.
The starter bolts to the block.

We're out two bucks (for the new distributor gasket -installs dry) and got two problems fixed. Less parts make it run better.

Now about that beverage..

 

[Ricko1966]

I haven't tried on 4wd but have more than once on 2wd, as your pulling out bell housing bolts, replace 2. of them with long starter bolts. Unbolt the torque converter now the transmission and torque converter can slide back just enough to r&r a flex plate.

 

[Rusty Nail]

Yep.
The starter bolts.
They aint no 1/4" though...

 

[Turt13]

Aint no way in hell I could even begin to consider lettin that truck whup me.

Turt.

Dude slow down man. Take a load off, have a beverage.

That was a wildly loaded post! Everywhere from oil leaks you cant find to starter shims to transfer case mounting bolts.
Dude WOAH.

One thing at a time. Youve got WAY TOO MUCH goin on!

DAMNIT i hit reply already but im not finished.

You installed that distributor, right?

There is a round gasket that goes underneath it...if you didn't use one it's the source of the oil leak.

See? Not hard.it is just nuts and bolts man - they only go together one way. You can do it Waterboy.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

The oil pressure sending unit deal is back there too, by the distributor. Sometimes they leak at their seams. Again, not a big deal.

Moving forward.
Sbc starters don't require shims. They weren't delivered that way and it looks suspect to me.
Why don't you try it without shim?
Maybe that will also help.
Some monkey put it in there. Take it out and throw it away.
Now youre ahead.
The starter bolts to the block.

We're out two bucks (for the new distributor gasket -installs dry) and got two problems fixed. Less parts make it run better.

Now about that beverage..

I am pretty laxed at this point, I figure if she hasn't gave up yet, then she can take abuse. The starter gave out on me yesterday, in the home depot parking lot. took it back personally and parts dude said "ah there's your problem, it's a shifty". Basicly, cheapo Reman. Which I figured, I didnt quite like the look of quality on it, or the way it sounded. I got a new starter from car quest, little more but was told their remans only use the casing, internals are all new. Sounded way better, didnt have a whine after it started. Couldn't tell any signs of cracks on the flexplate, but didnt have the best line of sight and didnt look but for a moment, as I was laying under this truck at home depot. Still grinds a small bit occasionally, and i verified the spacing for the starter.
There are a few reasons I believe it's a flexplate issue though.
The two bolts missing on the back of the block/front of trans are in an almost 180° line, one on each side.
There is a nasty slap/tick sound under load, any amount of load, and a sound that could be the same at idle in park, just a lot less. A lot.
Sound is absent in gear and stopped, where rpms would be less, believe causeing less flex in the plate, meaning it's not hitting anything at that moment.
Sound also almost completely disappears in gear while moving with no throttle/load. Again, rpms are still just enough to make it flex enough to rub.
There is a huge clunk going between r and d, vise versa.
If its not cracked or wallored out, then its miss aligned.
Also, possibly related,
Tcase has a stream from the rear output.
If a accidental shift from d to r while hauling a load occurred, even if it didn't fully engage, but was going to, then, just my thinking here, but:
-u joints could be compromised (had to be replaced)
-a violent twist would have occurred, from inertia moving one way and mechanically made to change direction of rotation.
-rear output bushing, seal, on t case could have been compromised, causeing a bad leak.
- the support for the t case stopped it from carrying the full twist, but sheared off a bolt that sits on the same axis/plane as the bellhousing bolts.
-t-case support bolt is the furthest away from the rotation energy, causeing to take the blunt of the force.
- A bellhousing bolt at the furthest point from the other bolt, is also possibly sheared and not just "missing" as it's the outer most bolt on that side, thus as well taking the brunt of the energy.
- because of the change in rotation, and so much inertia being behind the drivetrain at the moment of change, the part that absorbs 'minor irregularities" between the motor and trans, the flex plate, could have just as well been a victim of this action, am I correct?
-the sound under load, all but missing as coasting, absent while stationary in gear, and faint at idle, all being different rpms, could cause more or less flex, or more and less wobble in the plate.
Is that a clear picture?
Does Anyone fallow my thinking on this,?
Does anyone fallow and think that I could be partially correct in this case?
Does anyone think the symptoms, not my tangent, sound like a bad flexplate?

 

[Rusty Nail]

Ok ok ok.
Im ready to focus on this now.
Meow.

I may subscribe to the idea of the flexplate being a victim of circumstance but there is only one way to figure it out.

You MUST replace all missing bolts.

That may cure the issue but we'll never know until we find out. There's no reason to keep staring at the internet. Go find some bolts.

 

[Turt13]

Ok ok ok.
Im ready to focus on this now.
Meow.

I may subscribe to the idea of the flexplate being a victim of circumstance but there is only one way to figure it out.

You MUST replace all missing bolts.

That may cure the issue but we'll never know until we find out. There's no reason to keep staring at the internet. Go find some bolts.

I have replacements for the two damaged bolts. Just got a drill bit and an easy out as well. Now alls left is locating a drill I can borrow, and to drill.
There is a new sound now. A mean clunk/knock right after the truck starts. Hoping it's the plate or starter binding up, and not a rod.
How it was explained to me is,
A small block, being a v-engine, has a few components to balance it. As you know, You have harmonic balancer on the front. Mines showing signs of wear. The rubber seems to be splitting from the rest. Then you have pistons and rods. But we won't get into that because well, they are on the inside. Let's assume they are fine. And last, you have the flex plate. So, theres two components I can assume are not working in sync and get to. This assumption is based on how shes running, other symptoms I haven't got into, and what I can visually inspect and physically feel as shes running.
I spend more of my days either turning wrenches, cleaning, or tackling things that are not up to my standards, then well...
Let me rephrase that.
I spend every day working on this truck, weather it be for an hr or 8.
The time i spend on the internet is like a husband uses fishing to escape from his wife, except usually the internet time is also devoted to learning and part shopping for the truck.
If I knew better I'd say its starting to become an unhealthy relationship.
But I dont, so, let's just pretend this affair isn't going to end in broken parts or broken hearts.
But on a real note, I removed the cover for the trans tunnel today, to see if I could see any other clues and if I would be able to get to these bolts that need drilled out easier.

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Here is a clue, kinda, about the oil leak, the vent tube I broke recently, and the vacuum leak I patched on the trans vac line:

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Shes dirty. Here's the driver side before.

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and after

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in this last picture, on either side, closest to this text, are two what seems to be grinded off mounting holes or something. Anyone tell me what they could been from/for?

 

[Turt13]

Here's a few not relevant photos of markings/tags. If any one can tell me anything bout these marks and tag, I'd love to hear it.
This 39 is top middle of bellhousing

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manufacturing tag:

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I know this is a double, but there is a 1 also near the tail, top side, center/middle

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