Ethanol Free Or Premium Or Either

[Ricko1966]

If adding fresh gas to old old gas makes more old gas, then I guess we all need to just dump out our tanks on the ground and go get fresh every time we need to use our vehicles. I'll still use my method.

Maybe I shouldn't have put my post on adding new gas to old gas in this thread. What was going through my head at the time is working on junk that's been sitting a year or more,in which case I do drain it and refill. Sorry I wasn't clearer I meant adding good gas to actually bad gas just makes more bad gas.

 

[Grit dog]

Or just take the guesswork out of it and move to Alaska.
Until recent years anyway, the only road fuel pump gas available was/is 90 octane pure gas.
Although I’ve seen recently it appears AK has 3 grades of gas now, like the rest of the continent. Maybe someone from AK can chime in, if all AK gas is non ethanol still or if the corn fuel has made its way north.

 

[JamesSam]

Copy that Grit Dog and Reckless WOT. It has been filled with "premium" grade since 1996 at least. That is when the previous owner bought it. He kept all receipts from work done( I put it all in a binder) and I am in contact with him still when I have questions, so I believe him. I have only recently been trying to fill with ethanol free. I drive the truck about twice a week.

 

[JamesSam]

Longest round trip I have taken it on is 172 miles round-trip but am trying to drive it down to Denton NC for the C10 Revival in October. 3 hour trip for me. Any of y'all trying to go?

 

[RanchWelder]

The shale play and the off shore drilling just got shut down, to force everyone to drive electric vehicles. Domestic Oil production took a ten year hit.
There's no reason to go to Alaska, if there's no jobs there.

20 years of oil exploration and the world's largest copper/gold mine just got blocked in Alaska.

Octane is worth Billions of dollars every second you breath.
It absolutely matters. How can it not, under compression, when Ethanol generates 20-30% less heat per pound?

Use your head.

There's your corn vvvvv. This is detonation. It eats your heads and valves and destroys your engine from improper fuel or incorrect OCTANE, under pressure.

This is an LS piston, on an engine designed to burn Ethanol: Who wants to buy the set? It's $5.00 for 16 of them...

You must be registered for see images attach

I can post thousands of links proving the science behind what I wrote.

If it makes the bowl of a brand new motorcycle look like the photo I posted, in 60-90 days, what has it done to your Catalytic converter since 1992, when E-15 hit the market? HINT: Look up at that piston again...

I'm explaining to you, as a matter of fact, if your truck has been sitting for longer than 60 days, with E-85 ethanol, your Square Body Fuel system is contaminated. This in turn, causes the fluid dynamics of your very expensive fuel system to have an increased drag co-efficient, on the fluid dynamics within the system. This occurs, everywhere and it is very bad for your engine.
Now you are running lean, because the metering is wrong with all that crud slowing down your flow.

See picture of detonation... Ping is the death of your engine. Ping=Boom. Bad bad bad....

This is the best part (and you're not going to like hearing it)...:
"This is engineered BY Design".
"On Purpose"
...by the oil companies, who sold you corn-fusion.
You are paying them to ruin your engine, when you buy ethanol.

Why not pay me to ruin your engine, instead? I could use a few bucks...

If you had a 4-wire O2 sensor and an ETG, you would see it on your dash every time you swapped fuel nozzles at the pumps. Except, once you went to corn, your system would then be contaminated after 60 days and the test would be incorrect.
Your sensor would be ruined too.

And... before I wrote my long winded response, I was polite enough to provide you with all the recipe's you could ever want, to protect your engine before I explained what the fuel science document was regarding.

Your converter was not designed for Ethanol's low heat ratio, so it gets ruined.
Your exhaust is not hot enough and will never tolerate corn saturation, due to flow dynamics and restriction.

If you grab the Yellow bottle of HEET instead of the Red Bottle of HEET, you just contaminated your engine with Ethanol. The Red Bottle is your friend; and...
wait for it... it is nearly twice as much? Huh, wonder why that is...????

Octane.

Your TBI Injector pods are full of acid from fuel separation. Same as your carb bowls. Do some math. Ethanol is designed to fail at 60 days, so you have to go buy more or buy a new truck. It is absolutely a conspiracy, against your mind and your wallet.

Everything matters, ALL THE TIME. Say this to yourself often and you may succeed often. (With any luck, much more than I have accomplished).

Most useful indicator of "group think", or false logic statement: "I Don't THINK"...

 

[DoubleDingo]

Maybe I shouldn't have put my post on adding new gas to old gas in this thread. What was going through my head at the time is working on junk that's been sitting a year or more,in which case I do drain it and refill. Sorry I wasn't clearer I meant adding good gas to actually bad gas just makes more bad gas.

This goes against everything in this thread, but here goes. I have access to a product called Motor-Purr. It is the cleaner I use. Now to the contradiction. Pop has a 68 Lemans. His son killed it in the early 90s. It sat for 25 years. Pop rebuilt the car from front to back. He did not drain the tank of the 25 year old gas. He did blow out the line between the tank and pump. He explained the sound it made and the smell. I was there when he fired it up after all of his hard work. We added 10 gallons of fresh premium with two bottles of motor-purr to the gas tank. The car fired right up, the carburetor didn't gum up, and he never had any issues after that. I guess I am an optimist when it comes to adding cleaner with fresh gas to old gas, even in vehicles and small engine machines that haven't ran in over a year. Not saying I am right or that everyone else is wrong, just standing by my positive experience with what I have been doing for 20 years with using crappy gas with cleaner.

 

[RanchWelder]

This goes against everything in this thread, but here goes. I have access to a product called Motor-Purr. It is the cleaner I use. Now to the contradiction. Pop has a 68 Lemans. His son killed it in the early 90s. It sat for 25 years. Pop rebuilt the car from front to back. He did not drain the tank of the 25 year old gas. He did blow out the line between the tank and pump. He explained the sound it made and the smell. I was there when he fired it up after all of his hard work. We added 10 gallons of fresh premium with two bottles of motor-purr to the gas tank. The car fired right up, the carburetor didn't gum up, and he never had any issues after that. I guess I am an optimist when it comes to adding cleaner with fresh gas to old gas, even in vehicles and small engine machines that haven't ran in over a year. Not saying I am right or that everyone else is wrong, just standing by my positive experience with what I have been doing for 20 years with using crappy gas with cleaner.

Yah, he probably used High test. It sat for 10 years and tuned to varnish.


I have a 1985 F250 which will fire right up, with a new tank, new lines, new pump, new cap and rotor, etc. Sitting for 5 years. Never had Ethanol in it.

Fixed an F350 last year, similar story, sitting for well over a decade. Rinsed the tank, new lines, ignition, accelerator pump, entire brake system... runs great.

There's 2 more to do in another field and a snow cat from 1980 with a 4 cylinder diesel to go. 5 giant tractors, after that. 1970 F-550 flat bed with a 429 wants some love too.

All used non-corn fuel and sat for more than a decade.

Your experience is the proof, SOME fuel systems can be restored with a little love and a few simple fuel additives. (Like the one's I provided to you all, for free).

Ethanol or low collimated Corn changes EVERYTHING. You have to go beyond the complex hydrocarbon chains of Ethanol to Iso-butanol, in order to bring corn up the stack to a higher quality fuel. Iso-butanol, will restore your corn contaminated system. However, it is very toxic, by itself.

Most likely, consumer fuel systems cleaners including the chemical at a ratio which would rinse your contaminated corn-infused engine fuel system, would not be sold over the counter.

If your kids accidentally got ahold of concentrated I-B, or your dog drinks even a tiny bit of concentrate, it would not go well. In your fuel, it's no more dangerous than high test is already.

Which is WHY, it is important not to use corn, if you can avoid it, in the first place.

Grit dog, I was being antagonistic to prove a point, not to be insulting;
"...you could not pay me to ruin your engine."

Everything I posted is one man's dream to help stop the people, whom you are paying, from ruining your engine.

Re-read what I posted in this thread, real slowly... there's a lot there to grasp.

My projects require non-linear thinking to grasp the long range potential, so linear guys, sometimes "think" I'm arguing, (mostly because they want immediate profits and fast results or have figured out stopping me, means forced obsolescence and $$$$$$$$$$$).

I work from a geometric thinking process, using cause + reaction = outcome + solution. It's not too late to push for clean fuels for all our classics.

Or go eat bugs, when all the cattle are gone and drive your electric car, with the satellite kill switch installed. You will not be driving your Square Body, when the carbon tax regulations are stuffed down your throat.

The carbon you exhale, will be taxed as it leaves your mouth.
Your neighbors will call the cops when you start your hotrod and you'll get fined for polluting the planet.

Somebody here, probably wants your dead square body as parts. Will you ruin your truck so it sells for dirt cheap, or protect what you or your family has provided to you, with what little money you have and your brain?

It's not my intention to offend anyone.
2% smarter than what's trying to kill your engine, is all what's required.

 

[JACK34]

I'M just going to keep running premium not Ethanol or Methanol or whatever it is. Maybe it's a waste of money, maybe it's not.

 

[JamesSam]

Ranch Welder,
I have seen evidence of what you are talking about in the automotive industry and the farming(what used to be farming) industry. My grandfather was a farmer and grew everything under the sun: tobacco, cotton, CORN, soybeans anything that could bring cash and whatever he liked growing. My Uncle still lives on the farm and grows for the family and to take to market and makes money renting plots to contractors that want to grow.
I work in food. Have been a chef for a decade or so and now work in a very big "whole foods" grocery store chain. The chain I work for had very high standards and does not carry any products with corn syrup(on the bad ingredients list). My uncle and I have had many a conversation on how corrupt the food industry is these days(crops that won't seed sonyou have to buy a whole new batch for the next season!! ..ie: corn!)
So after reading (still downloading) your info again. I think I will continue to fill my Chevy at the ethanol free pumps I know of, and one day I will maybe get fuel lines, pumps, tanks, injectors etc.. replaced.
Thanks for the info and I hope you didn't get to worked up. I appreciate your insight. I get it, and believe it's pretty obvious the money has made the beaurocrats move towards EV.

 

[JamesSam]

So...anybody trying to go to the C10 Revival in NC???

 

[RanchWelder]

Methanol is completely different. It's in your windshield washer fluid, if you buy the blue stuff. (Do not lick your fingers). It cools your engine, when injected and prevents detonation, when used properly. Much better efficiency, over water injection, alone.

Either or a combination of both, displaces O2. So detonation is retarded. Your pre-ignition and post ignition ratio's can be better controlled, (theoretically, if your calculations are correct, not guess work). Cam overlap and duration, get in there as well. It is very corrosive, so you do NOT put it into your fuel tank. Very toxic. It is best injected below your throttle body, or just before your cylinders, (along with your NOx), with a very specific spray pattern. Slight adjustments in spray or direction through the Venturi, can be very productive.

Methanol, injected into my TBI high compression 355HO, (10.6:1, without the Giggle Juice), would allow me to run without Octane booster in my fuel. This would increase efficiency, without larger injectors, simply using the stock TBI, bored out for a lil' more air flow, at altitude. Dyno'd and fuel mapped for mild performance.

Adding a pair of 4-wire O2 sensors and ETG would be recommended. Going this rout, with multi-port, would be very efficient. Now the bottom end would need to be reinforced, because the lil' 355HO would be screaming, depending on which cam was installed.

The knock sensor would operate at a higher frequency at higher RPM. The knock sensor(s) frequency or limit, would have to be tuned, as well. The computer to read the new frequency, would have to be adjustable.

No guessing, it would be calculated on your graphing Texas Instruments adding machine, within a certain range of operation and thermal dynamic range, proven to be safe. Much more sensitive and much faster response from the ECU. The Piezo sensor, will likely not be good enough. Stronger/Thicker head bolts... forged internals, the build gets much more expensive, unless you can keep your foot out of it or install a rev limiter.
(Always a good idea...)

High HP Turbo Charged engines, with air box ice or A/C powered cooling charge intakes and a shot of Methanol, can boost to very high pressures and remain free from detonation. Fuel octane, requires exact measurement, at altitude, for every race. Can Am Fuel is very expensive at the track because octane matters, every time. If your calculations are off by as much as 0.31, under boost, your done for the day. Notice it is nearly the same as how much % water in Ethanol, can do to damage your engine...

The 4-wire sensor and active ECU and the ETG monitor's become very important, under boost. Same story, detonation mis calculations=BOOM. This is why they run hundreds of dollars for a gauge and proper sensor. ...and why you need to take care of yours, if you can afford to own 1.

What ratio works at Mile High Race Track, will not work at Gainesville Nationals, at sea level. Bike racer's bring their own dyno to every race.

This is also why so many old guys prefer Roots Blower or Super Charging.
Hard core enthusiast's, without a bottomless wallet, prefer Super Charged engines, because they can be more "friendly" to tune. Especially if you love carbs.
There's guys who will argue "Turbine's are for Diesels".
There's a lot to be said for this line of logic. Especially if you are on a tight budget and you have never programmed your computer for engine performance. The learning curve is very steep. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If you screw up a turbo charged V-8, you can easily lift the head. Big excitement... when the injection system gremlins show up.

This is why it is less expensive and lot less risk, as opposed to methanol injection failure, to just mix my own fuel additives. Just because I can do it, does not make it worth while, in the long run, for my driver.

If I teach you how to ruin your engine, am I your friend?

*** Just to clarify, water injection, at the cylinder, as a cooling agent to displace O2, is NOT the same as water in your fuel tank, being injected through your fuel system. No where near the same in any version of reality.

In any ignition event... if you'r dumb, you gotta be tough.
The rout you go may vary, as your ability to measure and document the risk to reward get's more advanced. Make one wrong move, means all your parts get listed in the for sale pages.

There's a bunch of now single, used to be married engine builders, who are watching this thread, eating popcorn... patiently waiting for your truck to end up for sale on Craigslist, with a blown engine (or transmission)... Just sayin'...

 

[JACK34]

Methanol is completely different. It's in your windshield washer fluid, if you buy the blue stuff. (Do not lick your fingers). It cools your engine, when injected and prevents detonation, when used properly. Much better efficiency, over water injection, alone.

Either or a combination of both, displaces O2. So detonation is retarded. Your pre-ignition and post ignition ratio's can be better controlled, (theoretically, if your calculations are correct, not guess work). Cam overlap and duration, get in there as well. It is very corrosive, so you do NOT put it into your fuel tank. Very toxic. It is best injected below your throttle body, or just before your cylinders, (along with your NOx), with a very specific spray pattern. Slight adjustments in spray or direction through the Venturi, can be very productive.

Methanol, injected into my TBI high compression 355HO, (10.6:1, without the Giggle Juice), would allow me to run without Octane booster in my fuel. This would increase efficiency, without larger injectors, simply using the stock TBI, bored out for a lil' more air flow, at altitude. Dyno'd and fuel mapped for mild performance.

Adding a pair of 4-wire O2 sensors and ETG would be recommended. Going this rout, with multi-port, would be very efficient. Now the bottom end would need to be reinforced, because the lil' 355HO would be screaming, depending on which cam was installed.

The knock sensor would operate at a higher frequency at higher RPM. The knock sensor(s) frequency or limit, would have to be tuned, as well. The computer to read the new frequency, would have to be adjustable.

No guessing, it would be calculated on your graphing Texas Instruments adding machine, within a certain range of operation and thermal dynamic range, proven to be safe. Much more sensitive and much faster response from the ECU. The Piezo sensor, will likely not be good enough. Stronger/Thicker head bolts... forged internals, the build gets much more expensive, unless you can keep your foot out of it or install a rev limiter.
(Always a good idea...)

High HP Turbo Charged engines, with air box ice or A/C powered cooling charge intakes and a shot of Methanol, can boost to very high pressures and remain free from detonation. Fuel octane, requires exact measurement, at altitude, for every race. Can Am Fuel is very expensive at the track because octane matters, every time. If your calculations are off by as much as 0.31, under boost, your done for the day. Notice it is nearly the same as how much % water in Ethanol, can do to damage your engine...

The 4-wire sensor and active ECU and the ETG monitor's become very important, under boost. Same story, detonation mis calculations=BOOM. This is why they run hundreds of dollars for a gauge and proper sensor. ...and why you need to take care of yours, if you can afford to own 1.

What ratio works at Mile High Race Track, will not work at Gainesville Nationals, at sea level. Bike racer's bring their own dyno to every race.

This is also why so many old guys prefer Roots Blower or Super Charging.
Hard core enthusiast's, without a bottomless wallet, prefer Super Charged engines, because they can be more "friendly" to tune. Especially if you love carbs.
There's guys who will argue "Turbine's are for Diesels".
There's a lot to be said for this line of logic. Especially if you are on a tight budget and you have never programmed your computer for engine performance. The learning curve is very steep. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If you screw up a turbo charged V-8, you can easily lift the head. Big excitement... when the injection system gremlins show up.

This is why it is less expensive and lot less risk, as opposed to methanol injection failure, to just mix my own fuel additives. Just because I can do it, does not make it worth while, in the long run, for my driver.

If I teach you how to ruin your engine, am I your friend?

*** Just to clarify, water injection, at the cylinder, as a cooling agent to displace O2, is NOT the same as water in your fuel tank, being injected through your fuel system. No where near the same in any version of reality.

In any ignition event... if you'r dumb, you gotta be tough.
The rout you go may vary, as your ability to measure and document the risk to reward get's more advanced. Make one wrong move, means all your parts get listed in the for sale pages.

There's a bunch of now single, used to be married engine builders, who are watching this thread, eating popcorn... patiently waiting for your truck to end up for sale on Craigslist, with a blown engine (or transmission)... Just sayin'...

I'm just going to stick with Premium. Thank you though. Good advice.

 

[JamesSam]

Jack34, If you are sticking with premium it most likely will have ethanol unless it says ethanol free. Check it out next time you fill.

 

[DoubleDingo]

@RanchWelder I doubt high grade was in the tank, my stepbrother was in college when he killed the car. So it was whatever cheap gas he had in it that sat for 25 years. Pop did not replace any of the fuel lines except for the rubber hose between the frame and pump and tank and frame, he did not drain or clean the tank. He may have used the old fuel pump, that I don't know. I do know that he did the initial start-up immediately after we added the fresh fuel, and the car has never had any issues after he got it running again. The fuel gauge has worked just fine from the get go, no carburetor gumming, no plug fouling, nothing. Did adding 10 gallons of ethanol-laced premium with two bottles of motor-purr help? I know it didn't hurt. We don't have access to high grade, ethanol-free, racing fuel, or the like, just your run of the mill ethanol-laced pump gas. I am not arguing with you, or @Ricko1966 or @Grit dog , just stating facts from personal experience. Everyone else's experiences may vary by location and products used.

I personally don't have tanks to make my own blends of gas that will last for years. Wish I did, would be fun to try.

This has been an interesting thread that started with a simple question. We all have different levels of experience, different backgrounds, some way more outspoken than others, in the end, we glean what we can from these threads, and move on.

 

[BeefSupreme]

When I got the truck from the previous owner, he put E10 (10% ethanol) gas in it because it was cheaper. When I took the carb apart (was hard to tune, like a dirty carb), I noticed some gel-like substance in the fuel bowls, likely from the older fuel hoses that aren't ethanol resistant like new ones are. I have used "pure" gas since, and not had any of the same issues.