Does rollerizing a 454 really make a difference.? Not for racing, just a street brute.

[Nasty-LSX]

I Have a 1995 454. I want to build a work horse for pulling and long trips.

Victim will be my 1985 K20 currently with a 350/400/208 with 410 gears front and back.
At freeway speeds it's like doing 10,000 RPM at 65/70.33x12.5 tire.


Goal. I AM NOT DOING A BUDGET BUILD. Except for heads.

454 or 496. Aluminum heads(OVAL) 9.8.1 or 10.1 compression. STRAUB cam. 6K or 6.5 RPM MAX.
4l80e Built by me. With all the goodies inside. I got a 241 T/C case also, Built by me.

I will buy bare aluminum heads and have my shop put them together. Engine bored 30 and built by shop.

Does it really matter if I balance the engine and get it rollerized?? I plan to use a holley sniper
in the build.

Just trying to build a truck with balls and have pulling POWER. I once got my ass kicked by a 1998
silverado 4x4 all stock against my 1983 4x4 silverado 454(all stock) with 700r4.. That was embarrassing

 

[68post]

I believe it would be well worth it.
BBC's are particularly hard on flat tappets also, and with the reduced friction comes the ability to use any off the shelf oil and more TQ & HP.

Ask Chris Straub his opinion. I'd be interested to hear his thoughts also, his word is highly respected - as it should be !

 

[BigDaddy72]

For towing you will have to lower your rpm expectations about 1000 to 1500 rpm.

Absolutely give all the info you can to your cam grinder and ask their opinion on compression ratio cylinder head mods.

It’s always a good idea to have the engine balanced especially for towing and higher sustained rpm situations.

496 will obviously tow better and make more low end and more torque across the operating rpm range.

A balanced 496 with a custom ground (from Chris Struab for your specific application/intended use) roller cam with 9.0 cr and moderate head work with a dual plane aluminum intake and headers will make an excellent tow rig.

I have two myself.

 

[Nasty-LSX]

Thanks everyone. Its not going to be a everyday tow hauler just a few times a year with race car. It will be more of a street truck.

 

[shiftpro]

My opinion got me yelled at a few years back haha.
Rollers preform better but only just a little bit, imo not worth the extra $$ (significant). The old story of flat tappets and BB, well that's true but it;s a;so not all the truth... some of these engines are still running decent with 150K miles on them with the original flat tappet. Break in is important, do it right and life continues as expected. You can take steps to improve flat tappet break in life in general, and that's to groove the lifter bores.
Roller lifters weight more than flats.. not a big deal for Jon's work truck but if you want go ****, this works against high rpms.

I like the concept of rollerizing and older engine, yes you can get a faster opening valve and and also close it more gently on the seat.... but it's
such such a small gain.
Get the best rollers you can... and be prepared to pay. I would even go with the bushings rather than the needle bearings. They handle low rpm better. Some years ago a tech from Lunatti told me how retro rollers don't like to be daily driven in a low rpm engine. Idling is bad for them because they're not getting enough oil. Grooving the bores like I mentioned above helps rollers live in low RPM situations. Again that was advice from the Lunatti guy. He also advised against propane fuel as we like to idle our 'pane down to 450 rpm. My original phone call was about a custom roller grind for a pane 496. He said they could deliver a wonderful grind for my fuel choice but basically advised against it. Honest guy.


I have a buddy that lives with his solution to these issues. He daily drives a 496 with solid rollers. Says he only needs to set the valves twice a year. he even drove his truck in the winter. he has had other BBs (alwasy a 496) with the same set up, corvettes and I think a Malibou or Chevelle..
He was always replacing bad rollers (hyd) until he switched to solid. They weigh less and are shorter than the hyd units...

Ultimately I don't know what's best for who or what. This is my understanding and it's enough for me to stay away from rollers on my builds.
Again... look at the price.

 

[bucket]

My opinion got me yelled at a few years back haha.
Rollers preform better but only just a little bit, imo not worth the extra $$ (significant). The old story of flat tappets and BB, well that's true but it;s a;so not all the truth... some of these engines are still running decent with 150K miles on them with the original flat tappet. Break in is important, do it right and life continues as expected. You can take steps to improve flat tappet break in life in general, and that's to groove the lifter bores.
Roller lifters weight more than flats.. not a big deal for Jon's work truck but if you want go ****, this works against high rpms.

I like the concept of rollerizing and older engine, yes you can get a faster opening valve and and also close it more gently on the seat.... but it's
such such a small gain.
Get the best rollers you can... and be prepared to pay. I would even go with the bushings rather than the needle bearings. They handle low rpm better. Some years ago a tech from Lunatti told me how retro rollers don't like to be daily driven in a low rpm engine. Idling is bad for them because they're not getting enough oil. Grooving the bores like I mentioned above helps rollers live in low RPM situations. Again that was advice from the Lunatti guy. He also advised against propane fuel as we like to idle our 'pane down to 450 rpm. My original phone call was about a custom roller grind for a pane 496. He said they could deliver a wonderful grind for my fuel choice but basically advised against it. Honest guy.


I have a buddy that lives with his solution to these issues. He daily drives a 496 with solid rollers. Says he only needs to set the valves twice a year. he even drove his truck in the winter. he has had other BBs (alwasy a 496) with the same set up, corvettes and I think a Malibou or Chevelle..
He was always replacing bad rollers (hyd) until he switched to solid. They weigh less and are shorter than the hyd units...

Ultimately I don't know what's best for who or what. This is my understanding and it's enough for me to stay away from rollers on my builds.
Again... look at the price.

I remember a while back, we had discussed the pros and cons of both. All I really remember is a lot of good points were made, lol.

But you are right, going roller is not a good time to try and keep a budget. If you go cheap or use parts that aren't constructed like the OE's are, it's going to come back and bite you. If good quality stuff is used then everything should be fine. But it's going to cost a bunch.

 

[Nasty-LSX]

If good quality stuff is used then everything should be fine. But it's going to cost a bunch.

NO budget here. I dont ever do Budget builds on anything. I was going to go LS 6.0 4l80e
and be done with it. Everything I do Is LS. I figure A healthy 454 would be the ticket, and better
pulling power.

 

[Ricko1966]

My 2 cents, for your everyday Joe in an everyday vehicle, on an everyday Joe budget stay flat tappet. That's been my stand since before I ever was on this forum.Rollers only real benefit IMHO is they might give your cam a better chance at life, and that's only a might I've seen cams wiped out by rollers that quit rolling.Yep rollers can give you quicker steeper ramps but ratio rockers on a flat tappet can just about duplicate that, for less money.Money you can spend on other parts and good oil.

Just read the original post for what you want to do you don't even need a bunch of cam , aluminum heads or ratio rockers. If you really it to have balls just build a real mild 454 and put a mini blower on it. That's my plan. 600hp 700 ft lbs on an easy build.

Boost will make more power than anything else you can do to an engine.Boost doesn't need good heads, boost doesn't need a high dollar valve train, boost doesn't need high compression.And if you turbo instead of blower you change the boost easy for whatever fuel is available or for what you're going to do that day.

 

[Mark Vucelick]

I Have a 1995 454. I want to build a work horse for pulling and long trips.

Victim will be my 1985 K20 currently with a 350/400/208 with 410 gears front and back.
At freeway speeds it's like doing 10,000 RPM at 65/70.33x12.5 tire.


Goal. I AM NOT DOING A BUDGET BUILD. Except for heads.

454 or 496. Aluminum heads(OVAL) 9.8.1 or 10.1 compression. STRAUB cam. 6K or 6.5 RPM MAX.
4l80e Built by me. With all the goodies inside. I got a 241 T/C case also, Built by me.

I will buy bare aluminum heads and have my shop put them together. Engine bored 30 and built by shop.

Does it really matter if I balance the engine and get it rollerized?? I plan to use a holley sniper
in the build.

Just trying to build a truck with balls and have pulling POWER. I once got my ass kicked by a 1998
silverado 4x4 all stock against my 1983 4x4 silverado 454(all stock) with 700r4.. That was embarrassing

I built a 489 with straub roller cam exactly as you describe except i went with the AFR heads.

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[GRK82]

Sounds a lot like my 489. Hydraulic roller, good heads (Dart Pro1), custom grind on cam, high (relatively) lift for a truck motor @ .617, but short duration and 112 degree separation. 10.25:1 comp, and Holley sniper. Dynoed at 569 hp at 5300, 640tq @ 3000. Idles smooth and will go down a city street in 3rd gear with 0 % throttle. Breaks the tires loose at will in 2nd, but hooks good in 3, 4, & 5 (I have a NV4500 in it). I can send u cam spec details if u want.

 

[Mark Vucelick]

Sounds a lot like my 489. Hydraulic roller, good heads (Dart Pro1), custom grind on cam, high (relatively) lift for a truck motor @ .617, but short duration and 112 degree separation. 10.25:1 comp, and Holley sniper. Dynoed at 569 hp at 5300, 640tq @ 3000. Idles smooth and will go down a city street in 3rd gear with 0 % throttle. Breaks the tires loose at will in 2nd, but hooks good in 3, 4, & 5 (I have a NV4500 in it). I can send u cam spec details if u want.

I actually run a more radical cam than was in this video now. And i have had the AFR heads fully hand worked in addition to the full CNC job they already had. The cam is now

238 / 243 111 + 4 .663 / 651 lift with a 1.7 rocker

 

[Bextreme04]

I'd say ditch the 95 block and get a 96-99 Gen VI block. Factory 4-bolt, factory roller, updated priority main oiling. The one I got out of my donor suburban had 288,000 miles on it and was still going strong. The tighter tolerances, roller cam, and better oiling let it run 5w-30. Your Gen V crank can be used in the Gen VI block and everything else will switch over too except for the timing cover, which is Gen VI specific. You wouldn't be able to run the factory roller lifters, retainers or spiders with a high lift cam or stiff springs but you would at least have the cam thrust plate already provisioned.

 

[bucket]

I'd say ditch the 95 block and get a 96-99 Gen VI block. Factory 4-bolt, factory roller, updated priority main oiling. The one I got out of my donor suburban had 288,000 miles on it and was still going strong. The tighter tolerances, roller cam, and better oiling let it run 5w-30. Your Gen V crank can be used in the Gen VI block and everything else will switch over too except for the timing cover, which is Gen VI specific. You wouldn't be able to run the factory roller lifters, retainers or spiders with a high lift cam or stiff springs but you would at least have the cam thrust plate already provisioned.

I'm pretty sure the updated oiling came with the GenV to start. Same as GenVI.

Also, most older blocks have a provision for the cam retainer plate I believe. They are just rotated 90° compared to the GenVI block.

 

[bucket]

I could have swore they were rotated 180°. Guess not. Anywho, this is a markIV block, with retainer plate provisions.

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[MikeB]

What does Straub say? Since you're going the high-dollar custom cam route, I'd also talk to Mike Jones at Jones Cam Designs.

As for balancing, the answer always YES, unless the rotating assembly is totally stock. And if you want the engine to rev >6000 RPM, then it's an absolute must!