Bent Frame

[MadOgre]

You might be able to spring that last bit of distortion back into alignment.

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Release the cross-member where it is bolted to the twisted rail.

If the web is twisted inward at the top:

Locate the point on the rail where the distortion is most pronounced.

Then, using a 36" pipe wrench (with the jaws tightly clamped to the rail on the upper flange - and the handle pointing up), try pulling outward with a bouncing motion.

Do this in a few other places on either side of the original spot.

Check the plane of the web for plumb.

You might find that the web is now perpendicular to the horizontal plane of the cross member.

Obviously, if the rail is twisted so that the web is canted outwards at the top, the procedure is the same. But, in that case, the torque is applied to the bottom flange. Also, you might need to use a shorter pipe wrench (and more Norwegian steam).

Cool thanks Jerry.

Im gonna try and bend that cross member straight and then see where Im at. How ever I just might have to replace it

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It has a few more bends than I can get the camera to show

 

[MadOgre]

So apparently grade 5 hot rivets become grade 8 after the installation.

So now I have to figure out if they are grade 5 rivets before the installation or after as that would make a big difference when deciding whether or not to replace rivets with bolts.

Also a grade 5 hot rivet is like comparing apples to oranges. As a grade 5 hot rivet apparently is as strong or stronger than a grade 8 bolt

According to my local fastener shop

 

[firebane]

So apparently grade 5 hot rivets become grade 8 after the installation.

So now I have to figure out if they are grade 5 rivets before the installation or after as that would make a big difference when deciding whether or not to replace rivets with bolts.

Also a grade 5 hot rivet is like comparing apples to oranges. As a grade 5 hot rivet apparently is as strong or stronger than a grade 8 bolt

Interesting!!! But is the material the same between a grade 5 hot rivet and a grade 8 bolt?

 

[MadOgre]

Interesting!!! But is the material the same between a grade 5 hot rivet and a grade 8 bolt?

NO

The hot rivets are heat treated in the process of installation. So on top of shrinking when they cool they are also hardening just like higher grade bolts are heat treated to become stronger.

 

[chengny]

You now, all the discussion about rivets vs. bolts, strength of materials, bolt grades, etc - that is all pretty much theoretical.

In reality, these factors are pretty much only an issue during the design stage. The structural and safety related components of the truck needs to be able to pass extremely stringent testing before the design is accepted and production begins.

If a repair of this nature is made using common sense and accepted engineering/mechanical practices, one should feel confident that it will last - and last a long time.

For example, if the truck in question is only expected to be subjected to normal conditions, I would not hesitate to reassemble the crossmember to the rails using grade 8 fasteners.

It is important to keep in mind that the joints in discussion are only two - of many - that make up the total frame assembly. There will still be dozens of rivets remaining in place that will maintain the rigidity of the individual component joints and the overall frame strength.

It might be a good idea to ream the holes out to a diameter that produces a tight (i.e. as close to "body bound" as possible) fit for the next biggest bolt diameter. It won't be a riveted joint but - at least to this weekend warrior - it will surely be sufficient.

 

[MadOgre]

You now, all the discussion about rivets vs. bolts, strength of materials, bolt grades, etc - that is all pretty much theoretical.

In reality, these factors are pretty much only an issue during the design stage. The structural and safety related components of the truck needs to be able to pass extremely stringent testing before the design is accepted and production begins.

If a repair of this nature is made using common sense and accepted engineering/mechanical practices, one should feel confident that it will last - and last a long time.

For example, if the truck in question is only expected to be subjected to normal conditions, I would not hesitate to reassemble the crossmember to the rails using grade 8 fasteners.

It is important to keep in mind that the joints in discussion are only two - of many - that make up the total frame assembly. There will still be dozens of rivets remaining in place that will maintain the rigidity of the individual component joints and the overall frame strength.

It might be a good idea to ream the holes out to a diameter that produces a tight (i.e. as close to "body bound" as possible) fit for the next biggest bolt diameter. It won't be a riveted joint but - at least to this weekend warrior - it will surely be sufficient.

I am debating disassembling the whole frame and reassembling using all grade 8 bolts just like you said with a reamer so they fit nice and tight.

That is the plan that I am debating. ???

 

[MadOgre]

So here is my attempt to straighten that front cross member

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[MadOgre]

According to my GM service manual the reason for the rivets is to eliminate the possibility of bolts wallowing the holes in the frame and causing them to give or break.

GM specifically says to use a reamer to make the holes for the bolts, as close to the diameter of the bolt being used to replace a broken rivet, as possible.

So if you can make a good and tight fit bolts would work. It just depends on how snug you can get your bolts to fit.

 

[MadOgre]

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[highdesertrange]

dang ogre, you the man. highdesertranger

 

[MadOgre]

So upon further investigation it seems that both rails from the cab support cross member forward are actually twisted. Not sure how I missed this. On top of that the drivers side has a good sway to it. So..... I think Im gonna ditch this frame and try and find something straight!

I've been thinking that a 1 ton frame would be nice to do for a ground up build. Was thinking of just running my 3/4 ton axles, 10 bolt/14SF and some soft springs like the 4" Zone springs that I have. That should soften the ride. And should be OK seeing as I wont be using it off road much anyways.

I could always use the 3/4 ton frames spring hangers if I need.

Any thoughts on pros or cons of using a 1 ton frame?

 

[Don5]

I think finding a 1 ton frame is going to be a little tough up there. Is the Zone lift an all spring lift? If you use the one ton rear suspension and add blocks it will be a pretty stiff ride.

 

[MadOgre]

I think finding a 1 ton frame is going to be a little tough up there. Is the Zone lift an all spring lift? If you use the one ton rear suspension and add blocks it will be a pretty stiff ride.

Ya I was even thinking of using a 2wd 1 ton and installing my 4x4 cross members in the front. I would still have my bent frame to reference to for measurements and for spare parts.

I have a pair of 3/4 ton 56" springs and a 52" set as well as a 1/2 ton 52" set. I can swap the 3/4 ton spring hangers in the rear to use the 3/4 ton stuff.

This would also make it easier to install ORD's upgraded frame shackle bushing kit for the front

Just not sure how feasible this would be. I saw some post on some other site where a guy was trying to do the exact same thing. Its only 10 posts long but the guys like " my 4x4 cross members don't fit in the 2wd frame" But it seems like the guy is thinking there should be holes already there for him to just bolt them in lol. I have looked and looked at pics of the 1 ton 2wd frames and I can not see any difference in the frame at the front where the cross members go. I think buddy just needs to drill some holes lol.

 

[Georgeb]

Ya I was even thinking of using a 2wd 1 ton and installing my 4x4 cross members in the front. I would still have my bent frame to reference to for measurements and for spare parts.

I have a pair of 3/4 ton 56" springs and a 52" set as well as a 1/2 ton 52" set. I can swap the 3/4 ton spring hangers in the rear to use the 3/4 ton stuff.

This would also make it easier to install ORD's upgraded frame shackle bushing kit for the front

Just not sure how feasible this would be. I saw some post on some other site where a guy was trying to do the exact same thing. Its only 10 posts long but the guys like " my 4x4 cross members don't fit in the 2wd frame" But it seems like the guy is thinking there should be holes already there for him to just bolt them in lol. I have looked and looked at pics of the 1 ton 2wd frames and I can not see any difference in the frame at the front where the cross members go. I think buddy just needs to drill some holes lol.

I was just wondering what it would take to swap from 2wd to 4wd and vice versa. I know of a 1 1/4 ton k frame that is bare and I may need a frame to fix Ol' Clifford.....

 

[MadOgre]

I was just wondering what it would take to swap from 2wd to 4wd and vice versa. I know of a 1 1/4 ton k frame that is bare and I may need a frame to fix Ol' Clifford.....

Do it! Do it! Do it! LOL I will help you with anything I can. Its easy to put that 2wd body onto a 4wd frame!

Oh wait 1 1/4 heh? Got any pics of it?