battery post mystery

[Ellie Niner]

OOF was it a tester like a car or a carbon pile kind of tester.. that could go south faster than general sherman if it had. especially enough next to those to cause anything kinda deal.

I was just doing a preliminary test on the whole pack, lazily, by using the powertrain. I pressed on the accelerator with the front wheels against a curb, putting about 150-200 amps across the pack when it happened. Was facing the batteries with them about three feet away from me. The batteries sit under your ass when you're riding the golf cart properly.

 

[SirRobyn0]

i think caps are caps which enable you to adjust the level of electrolyte and monitor and that vented ones dont really loose water that much faster than caps to make the loss of function and harder to inspect properly worth it. plus if you want a vent almost free expereince get an AGM they say you dont need to vent at all but the fact my agm has a vent in both sides and its top of the line stuff i am going to assume they didnt put it there for looks Lol

I think we have both kind of touched on this but haven't specifically said, so I'm going to now.

Lead acid batteries are all vented. Some have caps to inspect test and potentially add water if needed. The so called "seal top" lead acid batteries are still vented, so potentially if a seal top battery gets low on water you can't add to it and the low water will eventually cause the battery to fail. The only difference between a standard lead acid battery with caps and a seal top is that you cannot inspect or fill the sealed top battery. But they can call them maintenance free, and joe blow thinks that great even though it really sucks.

I'm going to over simplify, but an AGM battery has acid absorbed in a glass mat that surrounds it's lead plates. So still needs to be vented, but they are more stable than a traditional battery so really no need to check or fill one so they are all sealed, but vented.

Gel cell is the only battery that is close to being truly sealed. Lead plates in the battery are surrounded by an acid in a gel state. Again that's over simplification but it gives you an idea. Gel cells do not have a traditional vent, but instead have valve with a pressure vent that will open up in case of an over pressurization situation, which could otherwise result in the case rupturing.

 

[Grit dog]

@Ellie Niner
“I found out that adrenaline is brown”
OMFG Lol!
I can’t wait to use that one liner!

 

[AuroraGirl]

I think we have both kind of touched on this but haven't specifically said, so I'm going to now.

Lead acid batteries are all vented. Some have caps to inspect test and potentially add water if needed. The so called "seal top" lead acid batteries are still vented, so potentially if a seal top battery gets low on water you can't add to it and the low water will eventually cause the battery to fail. The only difference between a standard lead acid battery with caps and a seal top is that you cannot inspect or fill the sealed top battery. But they can call them maintenance free, and joe blow thinks that great even though it really sucks.

I'm going to over simplify, but an AGM battery has acid absorbed in a glass mat that surrounds it's lead plates. So still needs to be vented, but they are more stable than a traditional battery so really no need to check or fill one so they are all sealed, but vented.

Gel cell is the only battery that is close to being truly sealed. Lead plates in the battery are surrounded by an acid in a gel state. Again that's over simplification but it gives you an idea. Gel cells do not have a traditional vent, but instead have valve with a pressure vent that will open up in case of an over pressurization situation, which could otherwise result in the case rupturing.

I mean on the caps, they are filled SOMEHOW from factory and usually they hide it under the labels but im not about to go pry one open because the mess of trying to reseal or put that back the same way they did is yikes. Most of my batteries seem to come with caps so yay

 

[Ellie Niner]

I mean on the caps, they are filled SOMEHOW from factory and usually they hide it under the labels but im not about to go pry one open because the mess of trying to reseal or put that back the same way they did is yikes. Most of my batteries seem to come with caps so yay

Experiment by dissecting a dead battery, eh? From what little I have, the maintenance free ones appear to be put with one-way parts that snap into place, or are sometimes sonic welded. They probably have pressure relief or check valves in the position where conventional filler caps go.

I will go on record as far preferring the "sealed" top batteries. I've never had one with caps that gradually doesn't seep acid out of its vents, eventually corroding everything. Have only had one maintenance free that ever lost water, and it was in Mom's old Jeep Wagoneer after the electronic voltage regulator failed and alternator was charging at 19 volts. I run VRLA (Valve Regulated Lead Acid) or AGM in all my stuff if possible. Will also go on record as preferring side terminal battery cables, but always with an extra set of top post connectors to hook jumper cables and other stuff to.

 

[SirRobyn0]

I mean on the caps, they are filled SOMEHOW from factory and usually they hide it under the labels but im not about to go pry one open because the mess of trying to reseal or put that back the same way they did is yikes. Most of my batteries seem to come with caps so yay

What you are talking about, I don't think those come off the small flush caps that are under the label. I think they are adhered in place at the factory.

 

[AuroraGirl]

What you are talking about, I don't think those come off the small flush caps that are under the label. I think they are adhered in place at the factory.

thats what im saying, you coudld negotiate them off I saw it in a video on someoen refreshing a sealed one. but the fact you have to reseaal the thing and be opening it in the first place is ehh

You must be registered for see images attach

heres a nicer shot of what my bad boy looks like

I used baking soda on the tractor when it did the boom so thats where the crystals are from

 

[DoubleDingo]

I have had similar issues with my Jeep Cherokee doing what you describe. And it is totally random. I have never figured it out either. Cables are good, battery is good, connections appear to be clean, but it will do that click-no-start-bs. I don't use those battery washers, never have, but also have never had any issues with any of my vehicles except for the jeep. Has to be gremlins or aliens.

 

[Raider L]

@AuroraGirl, SirRobyn0, Ellie Niner,
Man, thanks so much for the detailed info. I was hoping that this post would turn out to be a bonus on info because I joined this forum because I didn't know so much that I thought I knew a lot about but really didn't. You know how that is. You hear so much over decades that you think you know something but you don't ever know as much about as you find out.
See, that's what I was wondering about the sealed "low Maint." batteries. Just how "low maint." are they if you can't get into them without messing up the sealing, @AuroraGirl, and you wouldn't want to do that if for the mere fact that if anything did happen you might not get your money back because it might look like you tampered with it at the very least. That's why I bought the capped type so I could check the fluid level and I regulaly check the specific gravity in each cell with one of those glass and colored ball checkers. I prefer them over the all plastic ones, which I have also but use the glass checkers all the time.
I have to admit that, yeah, I'm one of those guys who used to use tap water to refill my batteries. But no more only on account of what I've since learned here some time ago. I thought, what the hack, water is water and didn't seem to not have any problems using tap water.

 

[Octane]

My local auto parts store used to sell the electrolyte to put into a low battery. I do remember having to top off batteries back in the 1970s quite frequently.Those maintenance free batteries,although they did need a rare top off usually were maintenance free and a welcome new technology.I remember even buying cheap new 2year batteries in the 70s.They usually lasted about a year or up to 18 months and if you were lucky 2 years.Most of the ones I bought were 3 year batteries and if you could get a 4 year battery you were kind of "well heeled" in my 'hood. Lol.Back then I would have never believed a battery could ever last 9 years like a couple of modern batteries that I have had now.Also as tech changed and 5 year batteries arrived on the scene ...now you were just high class to afford one of those! Lol.You would be popping that hood and showing off a battery like that to your friends.

 

[SirRobyn0]

About low maintenance batteries.... The real thing that changed to make batteries in general lower maintenance has been improved charging systems. The biggest thing that depletes the water in the battery is charging cycles or worse yet over charging. Back in the 50's, 60's and even in to the first part of the 70's point type regulators were common. They'd get dirty, misadjusted worn whatever, or came right out of the box charging to high, that would really deplete the water. As electronic regulators came to be charging systems got more stable and better able to react to different needs for power. Less water was consumed. Battery plate technology improved some too. So those first "Seal top" batteries like the "maintenance free" GM batteries, it really wasn't that the battery was different it was that the charging systems were better.

I still think, even with todays computer controlled charging systems that a battery with caps is better simply because sometimes water does need to be added, and without caps there is no way to check and fill. Also it's the only way to tell cell to cell what is happening inside the battery.

 

[Octane]

Batteries dont sulfurize like they used too.And batteries are engineered to better survive underhood temps also.People used to put aspirin in bad battery cells to try and rejuvenate them some.And back in the day the higher cca batteries were still on 300 or less,sometimes around 200 cca and they had low reserves too.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Batteries dont sulfurize like they used too.And batteries are engineered to better survive underhood temps also.People used to put aspirin in bad battery cells to try and rejuvenate them some.And back in the day the higher cca batteries were still on 300 or less,sometimes around 200 cca and they had low reserves too.

I remember the aspirin trick. There also use to be this pink solution stuff called "charge it", basically if you had a battery that would no longer hold a charge properly you'd top off all the cells, or take a little of the fluid out so you could get an ounce or two in each cell and then put it on the charger. The battery would then take a charge and hold a charge. Generally you'd get another 6 months to a year out of it. And the solution would only work the one time. I'm not sure what it actually did inside the battery, but it was a band aid that we'd sometimes use until we could afford a new battery.

 

[AuroraGirl]

I have had similar issues with my Jeep Cherokee doing what you describe. And it is totally random. I have never figured it out either. Cables are good, battery is good, connections appear to be clean, but it will do that click-no-start-bs. I don't use those battery washers, never have, but also have never had any issues with any of my vehicles except for the jeep. Has to be gremlins or aliens. more likely an in wire break in the appear to be clean or are clean. heavy

I know they say epsom salt and charge the battery(I presume a mix of the salt, and water of some kind) , but i dont recall if youre looking to cook it a small bit or just charge, then flush contents, then refill with acid mix (new) apparently that can really take a dent out of the sulfation built up on the suckers and return the battery to a theoretical near/good position since you have less mass, and surface area than a brand new one(im sure the sulfide isnt 100% gone) and it had to shed lead to make sulfate so it wont be the same thickness of plates which would be, overall, a slight dent to CCA and capacity in the simplest way of looking at it, assuming nothing else in the modern techniques is lost or changed with that.

I have acid and epsom salt for this purpose and I bought a small battery for lawn mower long ago and drained it by leaving key on and its been sitting since and i wasnt bothered to remove it(takes like 10 minutes of **** to unbolt) but it wasnt used much at all. since its indoors and also not high hours of vibrations etc etc I would like to try it on that since they have a tendency to live short lives and they also are cheaper than hell so if it doesnt work then oh well. has caps.

i wouldnt do it on a battery that has seen a long long time or wasnt secured down well or sat in the sun etc. Vibrations and time kill the plastic and there is only so much standing between your battery and suicide when a plate does an oopsie and falls into another lol

 

[DoubleDingo]

I know they say epsom salt and charge the battery(I presume a mix of the salt, and water of some kind) , but i dont recall if youre looking to cook it a small bit or just charge, then flush contents, then refill with acid mix (new) apparently that can really take a dent out of the sulfation built up on the suckers and return the battery to a theoretical near/good position since you have less mass, and surface area than a brand new one(im sure the sulfide isnt 100% gone) and it had to shed lead to make sulfate so it wont be the same thickness of plates which would be, overall, a slight dent to CCA and capacity in the simplest way of looking at it, assuming nothing else in the modern techniques is lost or changed with that.

I have acid and epsom salt for this purpose and I bought a small battery for lawn mower long ago and drained it by leaving key on and its been sitting since and i wasnt bothered to remove it(takes like 10 minutes of **** to unbolt) but it wasnt used much at all. since its indoors and also not high hours of vibrations etc etc I would like to try it on that since they have a tendency to live short lives and they also are cheaper than hell so if it doesnt work then oh well. has caps.

i wouldnt do it on a battery that has seen a long long time or wasnt secured down well or sat in the sun etc. Vibrations and time kill the plastic and there is only so much standing between your battery and suicide when a plate does an oopsie and falls into another lol

Um, no. Clean the terminals and drive away