85 305 in a k1500 - wont idle after smog removal

[fast 99]

lol one more reason to get rid of that god awful thing

In some cases, it's really not practical. Much easier/cheaper to diagnose and replace it.

 

[Bextreme04]

lol one more reason to get rid of that god awful thing

If you are so bad at diagnosing mechanical issues that you have to resort to removing everything when it doesn't work right..... then you probably aren't going to properly remove everything anyways, and likely will still have the same issues or new issues. Its like all the guys that rip their TBI off and put a carb on it because they can't figure out why it doesn't run right. They spend thousands on the conversion and it still doesn't run right most of the time, either because they butchered all the electrical or they had a mechanical issue with the engine the whole time that was making "that damn TBI" run like crap from the beginning.

 

[scrap--metal]

lol one more reason to get rid of that god awful thing

I don't support removal of the charcoal canister either, but my Camaro's been doing fine without one since I bought it over 15 years ago.

It goes both ways...

If you are so bad at diagnosing mechanical issues

And no need to be snarky. Even if you and others like myself disagree, it was a relevant comment to the conversation. Non-aggressive and otherwise harmless.

 

[Bextreme04]

I don't support removal of the charcoal canister either, but my Camaro's been doing fine without one since I bought it over 15 years ago.

It goes both ways...


And no need to be snarky. Even if you and others like myself disagree, it was a relevant comment to the conversation. Non-aggressive and otherwise harmless.

I wasn't trying to be snarky. If anything my statement is more practical and his was snarky. This whole thread started with a truck running fine. Then he removed everything and it ran like crap. Now he has put it back and it still runs like crap. He needs help troubleshooting what is wrong and fixing it, not all the comments that "my 350 works great with no smog stuff, so just remove everything and move on". If people would bother to read the thread before making these kinds of comments, they would know it has been discussed ad nauseum why that is a bad idea for a smog era 305. He needs to fix the problem, removing the smog stuff CAUSED the problem.

I stand behind my statement. If you don't understand exactly what each item does, or why the engine isn't running right as-is... you are more likely to cause issues by messing with it than you are to fix anything. Throwing parts at an issue(or away from an issue in this case) is always the least effective way to fix an issue.

 

[SirRobyn0]

I wasn't trying to be snarky. If anything my statement is more practical and his was snarky. This whole thread started with a truck running fine. Then he removed everything and it ran like crap. Now he has put it back and it still runs like crap. He needs help troubleshooting what is wrong and fixing it, not all the comments that "my 350 works great with no smog stuff, so just remove everything and move on". If people would bother to read the thread before making these kinds of comments, they would know it has been discussed ad nauseum why that is a bad idea for a smog era 305. He needs to fix the problem, removing the smog stuff CAUSED the problem.

I stand behind my statement. If you don't understand exactly what each item does, or why the engine isn't running right as-is... you are more likely to cause issues by messing with it than you are to fix anything. Throwing parts at an issue(or away from an issue in this case) is always the least effective way to fix an issue.

Thank you I agree 100% with your comments.

Quite frankly I get frustrated with "just remove it, it's not necessary" mentality, and I'll out right admit I've gotten testy with a couple people including the OP in this thread over that. Frankly it gets tiresome. Maybe I should take a step back for a while but I genuinely want to help steer folks in the right direction.....

 

[RecklessWOT]

If you are so bad at diagnosing mechanical issues that you have to resort to removing everything when it doesn't work right..... then you probably aren't going to properly remove everything anyways, and likely will still have the same issues or new issues. Its like all the guys that rip their TBI off and put a carb on it because they can't figure out why it doesn't run right. They spend thousands on the conversion and it still doesn't run right most of the time, either because they butchered all the electrical or they had a mechanical issue with the engine the whole time that was making "that damn TBI" run like crap from the beginning.

Has nothing to do with being "bad" at diagnosing stuff, I just don't like to be hassled. I removed all the emissions parts from my truck before they gave me issues because I didn't want the headache. Nothing to diagnose if it ain't there. The less vacuum connections, the less opportunity for vacuum leaks. I do have a TBI 350 and I'm keeping it because it is also less fuss than a carb, no adjustments required. Very simple fuel injection system, if it gives me problems there are only so many things that can cause it. Only thing wrong with my truck after stripping it is once in a while I get a CEL for the EGR not being there. Darn, an orange light on my dash that only pops up once in a while and usually disappears in a couple minutes, whatever will I do? Hah, I can live with that. In comparison, the 'burb actually still has a lot of doo-dads on it. I have some vehicles in my fleet that have nothing more than an engine, radiator, alternator, and battery under the hood and the interior is just some seats, a shifter, steering wheel, wiper controls, a few gauges, and manual toggle switches for anything electronic- not so much as a radio or heater controls. I like things simple. If I want fancy sh!t I drive one of the newer cars. If I get fed up with that crap or something is acting up, I jump in one of the simple rigs.

An engine needs fuel, spark, and compression to run. Even on some newer stuff (not really new, but more modern than squares) it is possible to simplify down to almost nothing. Even those smogged 305s, it is possible to strip it down to just a bare bones internal combustion engine and it will run just fine. Maybe you might have slightly reduced mileage, but I would gladly set fire to a barrel of gasoline to not have to deal with the heartache, and you might have a loss of performance but seriously it's a 305 so you probably won't notice when your slow truck is slightly more slow, still better than walking.

The problem is you have to remove ALL of it or NONE of it, can't just take some of the stuff off and leave the truck trying to figure out what the heck to do with the rest when the whole system isn't there anymore. FFS there are people running carbed LS engines, it's possible even if not the most practical.

 

[Bextreme04]

Has nothing to do with being "bad" at diagnosing stuff, I just don't like to be hassled. I removed all the emissions parts from my truck before they gave me issues because I didn't want the headache. Nothing to diagnose if it ain't there. The less vacuum connections, the less opportunity for vacuum leaks. I do have a TBI 350 and I'm keeping it because it is also less fuss than a carb, no adjustments required. Very simple fuel injection system, if it gives me problems there are only so many things that can cause it. Only thing wrong with my truck after stripping it is once in a while I get a CEL for the EGR not being there. Darn, an orange light on my dash that only pops up once in a while and usually disappears in a couple minutes, whatever will I do? Hah, I can live with that. In comparison, the 'burb actually still has a lot of doo-dads on it. I have some vehicles in my fleet that have nothing more than an engine, radiator, alternator, and battery under the hood and the interior is just some seats, a shifter, steering wheel, wiper controls, a few gauges, and manual toggle switches for anything electronic- not so much as a radio or heater controls. I like things simple. If I want fancy sh!t I drive one of the newer cars. If I get fed up with that crap or something is acting up, I jump in one of the simple rigs.

An engine needs fuel, spark, and compression to run. Even on some newer stuff (not really new, but more modern than squares) it is possible to simplify down to almost nothing. Even those smogged 305s, it is possible to strip it down to just a bare bones internal combustion engine and it will run just fine. Maybe you might have slightly reduced mileage, but I would gladly set fire to a barrel of gasoline to not have to deal with the heartache, and you might have a loss of performance but seriously it's a 305 so you probably won't notice when your slow truck is slightly more slow, still better than walking.

The problem is you have to remove ALL of it or NONE of it, can't just take some of the stuff off and leave the truck trying to figure out what the heck to do with the rest when the whole system isn't there anymore. FFS there are people running carbed LS engines, it's possible even if not the most practical.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Thread drift that has absolutely nothing to do with this guys issue.

No, he can't just remove all of it. The engine is mechanically set up terribly, and all of the other systems are there to keep it from going boom. Its not a reduction in performance. Its a protection from rapid unintended disassembly. A 350 is exactly as you say, you can pull all of it and its fine. 305 is not. This is all just BS that doesn't need to be distracting from this guys actual problems.

 

[RecklessWOT]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Thread drift that has absolutely nothing to do with this guys issue.

No, he can't just remove all of it. The engine is mechanically set up terribly, and all of the other systems are there to keep it from going boom. Its not a reduction in performance. Its a protection from rapid unintended disassembly. A 350 is exactly as you say, you can pull all of it and its fine. 305 is not. This is all just BS that doesn't need to be distracting from this guys actual problems.

Well the reason my last post was a "drift" was because you were being a condescending pr!ck that essentially called me an idiot because I prefer an engine without a bunch of unnecessary sh!t on it.

And you're wrong, it was relevant to the OP's thread. Sure, some of his problems are caused by removing stuff wiuhout fully understanding it, but it's not like the only way to fix his issue is to put it all back on. 305 or not, it can CERTAINLY be run without that useless garbage on it. A 305 is the exact same thing as 350 just with a bore that is roughly 1/4" smaller than a 350 (and different heads, etc., but a SBC is a SBC). Sure, with emissions equipment and engine management stuff the was it was set up in the '80s, they don't operate the exact same way. But if you put that thing on an engine stand with nothing but a carb and a distributor attached to it, it will function the same way a 350 does in it's most basic sense. If he is having problems with it, they're most likely caused by vacuum issues due to stuff not being removed properly. Strip the thing down bare bones and it will not implode. Once he gets rid of his vacuum issues and maybe even some wiring issues, he too can have a nice hassle free V8 that runs free of pointless interference.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Ah geez. IDK, why we can't help this guy without this happening over and over again?

@RecklessWOT, Realize it is frustrating to rehash this over and over again with different people. And not just in this thread. The OP has already put that stuff back on so your like 4 pages and a couple of other guys late! That's what's frustrating is rehashing this over and over again with different people. You and I have both stated a 305 can possibly be run without some controls, at a loss of power and fuel economy, and I'll add likely engine damage. I agree with @Bextreme04 I attempted to remove the ESC on my 305 and it went horribly. I'd of either had to run such retarded timing that I'd never be able to tow my trailer, or blow it up from pinging itself to death. For me I want as much power and economy as I can get out of my 305 and I'd think most people would agree. Kevin, don't think I'm trying to take your opinion away from you, just realize this has been rehashed a few times now, and I'm tired of it, but wish to continue helping the OP. We are where we are now whether you think it's right or wrong.....

This will be my last post to debate with ANYONE, how this should be handled as 4 pages ago it was decided by the OP to put things back on and troubleshoot from there.

 

[bbgbouncer]

Thanks for all that have been offering help. I know with you come here for free and offer your time, info, and advice those that make a bonehead choice or two.

I sprayed around the vacuum ports again. no change in RPM. I double checked that all ports on the manifold and carb were either connected or plugged. Then decided to pull the plugs. Here are the pics. on Cyl 4 the plug wire separated from the metal clip attached to the plug. so Im getting a new wire set today and replacing them all.

no idea how old the plugs are. Only owned the truck for 3 months. I noticed that 3 and 5 were "wet" when I took them out.

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[fast 99]

Plug could explain the misfire I thought it had in the video. Did you check for an intake gasket sucking air/oil from underneath?

Something is different with 4 and 6.

 

[Bextreme04]

Yeah, and between 4 and 6 is a likely place to get a leak due to the extra heat from the exhaust crossover going through there

 

[SirRobyn0]

@bbgbouncer You said "I know with you come here for free and offer your time, info, and advice those that make a bonehead choice or two." First of all we all make boneheaded choices myself included. I just did something recently on my truck that has cost me time, money and frustration. It is simply impossible for any of us to know it all. And if your interested to know one of my other jobs is on another website giving automotive advice and I do get paid for that. I come here and give it away because I love these old trucks and most of the guys I get to interact with are good people and some of them I'd call my friends and this point.

Anyhow you have gotten good advice on the spark plugs so far and I agree with the thoughts on 4 & 6, but have a question about #8, in the picture I can't quit tell, is that black glazing on the insulator or is it actually broken?

 

[bbgbouncer]

Update on the truck. I added new plugs (delco) and wires. seemed to run a bit better but would still not stay running. since many said to check the vacuum connections for the misfire I went over them again. I replaced the dist vac line, old and nasty. I got to thinking it has to be a big leak. there are only two large connections. both come from the canister. I touched the canister connections to check for fit. one fell off. you can see in the video the one that I fixed. It was looked connected but barely touching it revealed that the line was swollen and not tight. so of course I broke the connector by touching it and had to replace with a tee that I had.

after test starting I could tell that things were much better. but the idle screw needed to be set. One turn at a time until it would stay running. It is bottomed out backed off 1/4 turn and the truck runs. still could be better. I have a video of it running now. I also have messed with the choke screw. what is the best way to set that?

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[bbgbouncer]

Here is a video of the truck the next day. Cold start. I has a high cold idle then just drops out and dies. not idling unless I baby it a bit.

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