(203 transfer) gear selection not accurate?

[Rusty Nail]

Hi.

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Maybe you can tell me what I need to know? Let's give it a shot.
NP203 is messing.around. It has no option but to stop.
*disclaimer* I know very little about it. Never owned a 4x4 before this K5. I know, I know...nothing to '75K5.w/e.

I THINK the HI selections are backwards.
H-I?
Remember this truck CAME FROM PHOENIX, so "Raising Arizona" fits like a glove. I often hear this song when I get in it. It's GONNA act right!

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I'm going to set it straight. It seems to me that the position nearest the seat is , in fact, H and the next selection towards the dash is, in fact, HiLOC.

I may, or may not, have actually gotten that box into what IS SUPPOSED TO BE "L", but never gotten it into the ever elusive L-Loc. Ever. I can't even prove it exists. Granted the shifter is all janky and I've been freeing it up a bunch. Used to be , if I touched it, it would immediately stick In neutral. I have​ pretty well gotten three good spots out of it now. Neutral and both spots towards the seats.
BUT, if what I think is going on, is what's really going on, that position should be L-Loc and I'll never get it into L without unlocking the hubs? It makes no sense. Not possible or?
IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE!!!!! GRRRRR.
I wish I knew EXACTLY how it has been modified so I can UNDO IT.
I had a problem more than once, unlocking the hubs until one day I decided to fidget with that stick and moved it up. Then I figured "I can prolly unlock the hubs now!"
Derr. Why is that so?
I don't enjoy feeling like a dumbass and most certainly am not! Grr@ my 42 year old 4x4. This is avoidable and only exists because the truck has been butched away from stock, likely by some dumbass?
It got stuck the other day and a buddy dragged me out. WTF big bad mother ****** like that? I'm posing? No....never.... I've had it now I finally got stuck, gotta figure this **** out. It's not even paid for!
My buddy says "are you sure it's in 4wheel?" -he's at 10 o'clock-

Yeah, **** it was built FULL TIME 4x4!!!!! No posi at least three of em should be spinnin! Who gets this truck WITHOUT POSI?! (nobody fixed it in 42 years?) ****** dumb! Poor baby K5 Blazer Destiny, daddy's gonna fix you up real good!
Wtf y is one ******* wheel spinning and I'm in 4Loc?
Laugh now cry later!
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He yanked me out real fast and I didn't think about it until later. I SHOULD HAVE MESSED With that shifter thingy.
But I didn't. It would have come out in "H". That doesn't make sense. HLoc should be a better 4x4 gear to me

I have read a lot about the 203 'one wheel spinning' and it doesn't make sense to me. What transfer case DOESN'T do that? Will no part time kit fix it?

I know the truck has been butched away from stock, that's not in question. It has locking hubs. While I was stuck I SAW the rear, driver tire spin and have mud on the inside of my door panel to prove it.

THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE? WTF is going on with this truck? It doesn't has posi...I've spin the wheels.

Anyone able to put any light on the subject? My trouble is that I'm always alone. My buddy says that and I ask 'is that wheel spinning?' he says "no".

Poor little neglected 3x4... Act right!

Am I dumb? I don't even know how to work my own truck and it'll be paid for TOMORROW.

I get to some mud today and try my theory. Slap the shifter into "H" (at the indicator) and it 'wheels like a champ. I can TELL the front wheels are spinning!

If the shifter is backwards, what is the cause and how do I fix it?
Any clues how to determine BY MYSELF? Lol I want it done right.

Ever wrote a bunch of stuf out and try to find something on YouTube to add , only to come back and find it's all gone? I type here on mobile. It's kind of buggy.

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Looks proper AF!
Pic taken today. It's cool because it's HELLA camo, but not "camo". Invisible much of, and many times. Smidgen low in the back! I'ma use "zero rates".

 

[theblindchicken]

NP203 Pattern:

LoLoc
Lo
N
Hi
HiLoc

(HiLoc closest to seat, LoLoc closest to dash)
-Loc only signifies that the front and rear axles will rotate at the same rate. So, the transfer case acts as a locked differential.

If you're in loc, you need to spin 1 wheel on the front AND rear to be stuck.

Add a rear locker to that and you need to spin 3/4 wheels to be stuck.

If you're in regular hi/lo you will be stuck if ANY wheel starts spinning. The advantage of having fulltime 4wd (aka AWD) is all four wheels are being powered while allowing for the release of slip and binding that would occur on dry pavement by being in 4wd with almost any other part time 4wd transfer case.

i.e. improved traction on pavement/rainy weather versus part time 4wd cases where you'd only be in 2wd.

 

[Rusty Nail]

Ya, that doesn't make sense to me. You're not listening. It was in the HiLOC position but only 1 back tire spun.
Locking hubs should make BOTH fronts spin….y does it not?. Non-posi should make it a 3x4 but IVE SEEN the the rear driver tire spin which should NEVER happen.

So if all 4 tires spin, how does it get stuck and only one ducking tire spins? Doesn't make sense. Youre telling me between two axles and three ,differentials I have a "4x4" that only spins one tire...I WILL correct it, but how? Stupid part time conversion ********. I guess, seems like the BEST option, is to buy a rebuilt 203.
I've heard of people putting positrac in the D44. That still doesn't explain why the hubs seemingly have no effect. Between those two solutions AND a posi in the 12 bolt, it will spin all four? Best start is a rebuilt 203 or WHAT transfer case that won't spin one wheel and get stuck? 4x4 my ass .
Why the **** does locking the hubs not make both tires spin? Cuz it doesn't have posi... What's the point? That's ******* dumb. They should call them something else!
How the EFF did the rear driver tire decide to start spinning? RIDDLE ME THIS! I saw it. W.T.H.? Opened the door to see if I was moving and is spun mud ALL OVER ME. MOTHER ******.
Grr. I'm pissed.

I think that "Loc" would provide the best 4 wheel drive action but it DOES NOT.

 

[theblindchicken]

You may not have fully engaged the HiLoc? Sometimes its still in Hi when you think it's locked. If you have a part time kit,

It would be:

4LoLoc
2Lo
N
2Hi
4HiLoc





With the 203 unlocked, you have 3 open differentials. Spining any 1 tire = full power to THAT tire = stuck.

Locked 203, unlocked diffs: spin 1 tire in rear, but front is gripping? You're just fine. Spin 1 in front, but rear is gripping? Same show. Spin 1 front and rear? Now you're stuck.

Locked 203 with locked rear diff: gotta spin both rears and 1 front to be stuck.

Locked 203 with both diffs locked: gotta spin all 4 to be stuck.


Locking hubs are nowhere near the same as a locking differential. All the locking hub does is connect the wheel hub to the axle shaft.
Having one or both hubs unlocked is the same as having a tire spinning. So if you had the 203 unlocked, one hub locked, but one was broken and wont lock? You're stuck since that's your spinning tire.

You'd have to throw the 203 in Loc to drive around with a busted/missing driveshaft (front or rear), or a busted front hub. Its one way of being able to crawl off a trail and get on home if you break a bit.


Easiest way to think of it is, non locked 203 = awd for pavement or wet roads
Locked 203 = 4wd for dirt, snow, mud, etc.

An open differential provides power to both wheels, but as soon as one slips, all the power is transferred to that side.

 

[Rusty Nail]

Dude.
I believe you, thank you for your replies, your input is very valuable.

That's a lot of information!
I drive this truck around (all of the time, everywhere) with the driver hub locked and the stick indicating HLoc. If I leave the passenger unlocked, I can turn right circles.
When I might need "4x4", I get out and lock the other hub. Never had any trouble and thus, never questioned it.
That may not make sense but my job OFTEN requires I drive off-road.
(that's kinda why I bought this truck)

What does that mean- Locked or no locked 203? The hubs or Loc? Loc. I get it.
I put it 203 in neutral and the truck won't move hubs locked or not.

I don't have a part time kit? I sling mud from the front with my case in "H".

Time out.

"With the 203 unlocked, you have 3 open differentials. Spining any 1 tire = full power to THAT tire = stuck."

This is a nightmare! 3 unlocked diffs. Shoot me.

Too bad I don't know anyone that k ows anything about it AROUND HERE that could/would help me figure it out. Surely 4 eyes are better than 2 if 2 gotta watch where they're going. I THINK the front pass. tire was wheelin.....(spinning in mud) I can tell when the front driver is (I think)
So there is NO WAY I have a part time kit, because it wheels like a PRO in the above 2hi? Front tire spinning and ****...switching sides..and everything. (kinda klunky but not in a bad way but it's noticeable)-to me.

 

[Craig 85]

Let's try a different route. From your pictures, it looks like you still have the smooth front hub covers and not part time hubs. I believe you said at times, even though you may be in 4 loc, you don't get the front tires to spin.

Have you ever popped off one of those front covers to make sure the gear that locks the hub to the axle is in there? Just a thought.

 

[theblindchicken]

Locked 203 = putting it in a Loc gear.

You could try one quick thing that will easily tell you whether it's been converted or not.

For the front driveshaft, Mark the yoke to the ujoint with a paint pen (to ensure proper orientation after).

Then ubolt it and tie it up real quick.

Throw the transfer case in 'Hi'

If you drive around just fine, then you've got a part-time converted case. If not, throw it back into HiLoc. If you can drive around now, you've got a normally operating NP203.

If your 203 has indeed been converted, then you would need both hubs engaged as well as it set to HiLoc to have 4wd. If it wasn't converted, then you only need to be in Hi with the hubs engaged to drive around just fine.

If your truck has locking hubs, there's no actual need to keep them unlocked, since the factory axles came with full time engaged hubs. If you think about it, you're theoretically driving around with a wheel that is continually slipping, thus may actually be wasting power to the wheels.

So you should easily be able to drive around with the engaged hubs and with the 203 in Hi gear.



The unfortunate downside of an open differential is that when a tire slips, all power is transitioned to that wheel since it has the least amount of resistance. When the NP203 is not engaged in Loc, it also operates with this downside. However, the Loc gear removes this downside when necessary. You don't want to utilize Loc on pavement since it prevents the axles from rotating at different rates. It would make your turning radius larger and create binding in the drivetrain.

 

[Rusty Nail]

@Craig 85 I think it was @bucket that helped me determine my hubs are some sort of "custom hybrid" I Guess? the locking hubs changed bearing sizes from big to small being the whole dealy turned or the little thingy that
turned inside of the bigger deal. LoL.
It is assumed that my truck has the correct 1975 Dana 44 but some genius has mixed the small inner hub piece to the bigger "whole knob" outer piece and maintains the correct bearing size for the axle. What you're looking at says "Power train Products" on it, it's great big as pictured, but a 1975 D44 SHOULD have the smaller bearings/knob/dial thingy (after being changed to a selectable hub ofc.) You're right about the stock configuration...ofc.
Whatever . Hope that answers your question. Thank you. LMAO that makes sense, right?

Ya. Binding. That was the suck, so I unlocked the passenger side. Pretty okay. Turning radius was good.

Moving forward.

Dude. I owe you thanks @theblindchicken

I wish I could blame it on @rich weyand for scaring me about the "fluid reservoir​ running dry and having to lube it on Loc one in a while? My solution was one wheel locked in Loc and forget about it.
Never had problems AND I figured that was the superior 4WD gear anyway.

Wrong.

HLoc sucks my dick. Not in a good way either.
Like in prison I guess.



BUT LAST NIGHT!
Some cops got stuck in the mud with a sheriff's deputy at this place I was. Doin LE stuff... Umm, yeah, "I got a K5 and a piece of chain, you want our help?"lol
Blazer pwn.
'75 Blazer Destiny pwn star.
I been running around in H since after I got stuck. Pwn. It pwns. Hubs locked IDGAF.
Drives like champ.
Wheels like pro.

I discovered the secret already. MORE THROTTLE!
Muahaahahahahaah!

mother ****** slingin mud WAY UP in the air off all four. At different times! It's ****** cool!

Man. I'm so happy about that. My buddy, that pulled me out that one time, I was telling him about the open diff things and the Loc and all that jazz and HE SAYS "Oh yeah, that makes sense now! Your 4x4 is old!"

........

.........

(am I mad?)

........


........


**** ya bro!
Old 4x4s rule!
(Neither one of us knew how to work it lol )
I've been driving it daily for a year.

I'm happy to have found out before it got paid for!

**** ya.

Thanks again man, I hit you some rep. \m/>.<\m/

Check it out. Driver rear slinging mud to the front AND to the back. No way it's converted!
OMG so bad ass though. I shoulda been SOOOOO stuck! Instead I'm saving the day (night)

You cops be cool, lemme stop and get out so I can take a picture for the internet....I got a rep!
Believe it or not my head was someplace else and we were doing good works!

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:.(

MORE THROTTLE!

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[rich weyand]

Hoo, boy.

You mentioned me, Rusty Nail, which dragged me over here into this forum topic. Where the hell am I, anyway?

To free up the NP203 shifter:
Problem is, it hangs down there in all the mud and gets full of crap. First, get the hose out and hose off the shifter box from underneath the truck as much as you can with the high pressure nozzle. try to get all the big crap off. Now take the shifter knob off the 4x4 lever, and take the boot retainer ring and the boot off. While you're in there, tighten the bolts that connect the chrome arm in the cab to the actual actuator arm of the shifter box. They work lose and are a PITA. Then take a half a can of PBBlaster and soak down the whole shifter box through the hole in the floor. Move the shift lever back and forth as far as it will go. Work it back and forth several times. Now soak it down again with the other half of the can. Work it back and forth some more. You should now have five positions. Dump a little engine oil over it. Replace the boot, boot retainer ring, and the knob.

It sounds like you have the unmodded NP203 without the G80 rear diff. So, as noted above, three open diffs when in HI or LO. Spin one and yer done. But, you can drive around with both hubs locked all day long like that. In HI LOC, you lock the center differential, the one in the NP203, but you still have open differentials front and rear. So now you have to spin one front and one rear to get stuck.

If you drive around in HI with the hubs locked all the time, you will be in full-time AWD. You can get better gas mileage with the front hubs unlocked in HI, because you aren't spinning all the extra hardware, but then you have to get out and lock hubs to get into 4WD. Since you need 4WD so often, driving around in HI with the front hubs locked is OK, and you can grab 4WD any time you want without getting out.

My warning to run the NP203 in HI LOC once in a while to oil the rear main output shaft bearing in the NP203 is only an issue if the NP203 has been modded to remove the center differential. Yours seems from your story to be unmodded, so not a problem.

 

[Rusty Nail]

Really? ..cool! Thanks Rich.


Ah! It's gettin better all the time!
I think this is"tech discussion" or similar. /shrug.
First I was trying to sell your truck -to my dad- lol, but he won't go for it so now I'm trying to find 10g cuz I reckon that's prolly a steal. I been asking neighbors, coworkers, anybody that I'm close to so maybe I can manage to get my grubby mitts on it one day.
Huuhh thus is life.
I kinda hope you don't sell it before you wish you still had it though. If I bought it, I'd stand a pretty good chance of flipping some profit after I sell it back to you.
Sure you'll be spoiled in plastic "luxury" for awhile but you'll be back. All that glitters ain't gold.

 

[rich weyand]

The leather 12-way power seats on the Denali do my old bones good.

And with a 4.65 first gear and 420hp/460ftlb, it gets right out of Dodge.

No, there's a time for everything, and I enjoyed my time with Working Girl.

Someone else's turn.

 

[rich weyand]

Hey, Rusty --

You get your NP203 shifter straightened out?

 

[Rusty Nail]

Awwww Hell no. My truck thought it would be effort better spent to stop pumping oil through the heads instead.
It's parked now while I prep for a head swap. Bad gasket and cracked head took priority. Are you hip to the Bar's Leak fix ive been runnin since mid-January? I think it cracked more / got worse. Can't pull the motor back out right now...

It 'wheels like pro in H though, beats the hell outta Loc!. Thanks for checkin in and reminding me Rich, I'll have a chance to revisit in the next couple of days if it ever quits raining.