Modified engine crewcab gas mileage?

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1lejohn

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My truck gets 9.5 MPG. 350, 350 combo with 3.08's and 32" tires. Thats mainly driving on side streets. I do drive a few miles on the freeway maybe 20 miles a week.
 

Nick88

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My truck gets 9.5 MPG. 350, 350 combo with 3.08's and 32" tires. Thats mainly driving on side streets. I do drive a few miles on the freeway maybe 20 miles a week.
Swapping rear gears would help alot no doubt. 3.08s and 32s definitely is not helping the motor any. My blazer has 3.73s and 33s and that's about the highest I'd go for 33s
 

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Do you think it would be lugging that much more? My brother has 4.10 and 35s on his f150, rolls pretty good and has no problem cruising around on the highway.

I'll rarely be towing or hauling but will on occasion.

I chose a very low end torque cam so I can keep rpms low, it's rated 1000-5500 rpm, I think if I keep it when cruising highway around 2k-2500 it will be very healthy in the torque range for going up hills and overtaking.
There’s no lugging with 4.10s. If it’s driven on the highway, 35s and 4.10s is still wound like a clock. Highway rig, more like 3.42s and no or on 35s would be much better.
 

Nick88

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There’s no lugging with 4.10s. If it’s driven on the highway, 35s and 4.10s is still wound like a clock. Highway rig, more like 3.42s and no or on 35s would be much better.
Truck has a lift already that I would like to keep so smaller tires aren't really an option, smallest 33s but they even look a bit silly on it at the moment. With 3.42s I'd be 400 rpm lower on the highway but I feel like I'd be sacrificing a lot of pickup around town with big tires and that gearing.
 

Bextreme04

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An 88 burb getting 20 mpg sounds too good to be true.
It's possible... occasionally, but not probably. 15-20 is pretty normal for a fuel injected 1/2-ton blazer/tahoe/suburban if you are in an area where freeway driving stays below 70mph.
It's a blazer, gets 20 pretty easily on the highway if I'm not really in the pedal.
This kind of thing is pretty regularly said on GMT400 forums too, then once people start asking questions and picking it apart it comes to light that it is more like 15-20mpg and that is questionable because it is not running factory tire size and the speedometer has never been calibrated.

The biggest issue you aren't taking into account is that you are talking about a crew cab 1-ton pickup truck. The drivetrain is one of the biggest problems as there is a lot of loss in turning the big heavy duty transmission, transfer case, and axles. Big heavy tires are also a parasitic loss. I would expect a crew cab pickup of that year to be very similar weight and maybe even worst aerodynamics to a 97 K2500 Suburban. EPA fuel economy in a 97 K2500 Suburban with a 5.7 was 11 city/15 highway. Fuelly says their data shows an average of 11.2mpg over 100,000 miles in 8 different vehicles real world... which is right there with what everyone here is telling you. That's with a more modern engine and an overdrive trans. Expect worst in yours with a TH400.

My 2011 Suburban with a 5.3/6l80 running 4.10's and 33" tires would get ~15-20mpg. It depends on elevation and highway speed, but that has it cruising at ~2200rpm at 80mph. When I went to the 6.2 it dropped to ~12mpg around town and 15-17mpg on the highway, but thats with a not very good cam for the truck. I'll probably see that come up a bunch when I swap the stock cam back in it, because 99%% of the driving is done under 3k RPM and the current cam is WAY worse than stock under 3k RPM. She screams above 3k though.
 

Nick88

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It's possible... occasionally, but not probably. 15-20 is pretty normal for a fuel injected 1/2-ton blazer/tahoe/suburban if you are in an area where freeway driving stays below 70mph.

This kind of thing is pretty regularly said on GMT400 forums too, then once people start asking questions and picking it apart it comes to light that it is more like 15-20mpg and that is questionable because it is not running factory tire size and the speedometer has never been calibrated.

The biggest issue you aren't taking into account is that you are talking about a crew cab 1-ton pickup truck. The drivetrain is one of the biggest problems as there is a lot of loss in turning the big heavy duty transmission, transfer case, and axles. Big heavy tires are also a parasitic loss. I would expect a crew cab pickup of that year to be very similar weight and maybe even worst aerodynamics to a 97 K2500 Suburban. EPA fuel economy in a 97 K2500 Suburban with a 5.7 was 11 city/15 highway. Fuelly says their data shows an average of 11.2mpg over 100,000 miles in 8 different vehicles real world... which is right there with what everyone here is telling you. That's with a more modern engine and an overdrive trans. Expect worst in yours with a TH400.

My 2011 Suburban with a 5.3/6l80 running 4.10's and 33" tires would get ~15-20mpg. It depends on elevation and highway speed, but that has it cruising at ~2200rpm at 80mph. When I went to the 6.2 it dropped to ~12mpg around town and 15-17mpg on the highway, but thats with a not very good cam for the truck. I'll probably see that come up a bunch when I swap the stock cam back in it, because 99%% of the driving is done under 3k RPM and the current cam is WAY worse than stock under 3k RPM. She screams above 3k though.
That all makes sense. My whole thing is there is a certain sweet spot of power and efficiency especially in a heavy vehicle. You can have an underpowered stock motor that gets far worse mpg than a modified motor because the motor needs to worked much harder, hence why a lot of times rv cams increase power and mpg. I'm trying to achieve around that point, hence my cam choice and lockup converter and what not, since the truck no doubt will have modern power. More power also means less throttle needed to get to speed with a quadrajet, less secondary usage compared to a stock underpowered motor getting to speed, causing more efficient power because as we all know once the secondaries open the gas needle drops. I'm just shocked with how bad everyone's mpg is considering my tbi gets good mileage in the blazer that is also very heavy. I know guys with gmt 400s that also get pretty damn good mileage.
 

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Send it and report back then. Another data point for the set.
 

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That all makes sense. My whole thing is there is a certain sweet spot of power and efficiency especially in a heavy vehicle. You can have an underpowered stock motor that gets far worse mpg than a modified motor because the motor needs to worked much harder, hence why a lot of times rv cams increase power and mpg. I'm trying to achieve around that point, hence my cam choice and lockup converter and what not, since the truck no doubt will have modern power. More power also means less throttle needed to get to speed with a quadrajet, less secondary usage compared to a stock underpowered motor getting to speed, causing more efficient power because as we all know once the secondaries open the gas needle drops. I'm just shocked with how bad everyone's mpg is considering my tbi gets good mileage in the blazer that is also very heavy. I know guys with gmt 400s that also get pretty damn good mileage.
There is a set amount of torque required to keep the vehicle at a constant speed. HP is the amount of torque being applied over a distance(RPM). HP means nothing in this case. There is a curve in the engine where BSFC(Brake specific fuel consumption) is best, this means that there is an RPM and throttle position at which the engine produces the most power with the least amount of fuel. For max efficiency, you want the engine to be in that band when cruising. RV cams generally increase fuel economy and torque under the curve because they are focused on maximum efficiency at low RPM's where the engine spends most of its life around town and when towing.

There are two sides of this to consider. The amount of power needed to accelerate and keep the vehicle moving(which is a direct reflection of weight, parasitic losses in drivetrain, aerodynamic coefficent, and engine efficiency) and also the specific characteristics of the engine.

Weight difference between 88 Blazer(~4500lbs) and 86 K3500 CC(~7000lbs) is significant
Parasitic loss between 1/2-ton and 1-ton drivetrain is significant. I would expect a 15% loss in the 1/2 ton and maybe up to 30% in the 1-ton
The difference in aerodynamic coefficient between an 88 Blazer, 86 K3500 CC, and GMT400 are probably not large.
Engine efficiency differenced are going to be a total toss-up, especially once you start messing with cams, EFI or carb, tire size, transmission and rear end gearing. Since you don't have a solid understanding of what you are trying to do, you are just as likely to get right into the sweet spot of power and efficiency as you are to be completely outside of it.

I view anecdotal MPG claims the same way I view hunting, fishing, and dating stories... they are almost always wildly overexaggerated.

I'm a engineer by trade and my degree focused on propulsion, so I'm always interested in reading stuff like this. Here's a pretty good scientific breakdown on what you are actually looking at with the relationship between RPM, Power, Force, and fuel consumption. https://takemebeyondthehorizon.word...part-3b-brake-specific-fuel-consumption-bsfc/
There are some good graphs in there showing just how often a vehicle driving around town ends up in a very low efficiency section.
 

Nick88

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There is a set amount of torque required to keep the vehicle at a constant speed. HP is the amount of torque being applied over a distance(RPM). HP means nothing in this case. There is a curve in the engine where BSFC(Brake specific fuel consumption) is best, this means that there is an RPM and throttle position at which the engine produces the most power with the least amount of fuel. For max efficiency, you want the engine to be in that band when cruising. RV cams generally increase fuel economy and torque under the curve because they are focused on maximum efficiency at low RPM's where the engine spends most of its life around town and when towing.

There are two sides of this to consider. The amount of power needed to accelerate and keep the vehicle moving(which is a direct reflection of weight, parasitic losses in drivetrain, aerodynamic coefficent, and engine efficiency) and also the specific characteristics of the engine.

Weight difference between 88 Blazer(~4500lbs) and 86 K3500 CC(~7000lbs) is significant
Parasitic loss between 1/2-ton and 1-ton drivetrain is significant. I would expect a 15% loss in the 1/2 ton and maybe up to 30% in the 1-ton
The difference in aerodynamic coefficient between an 88 Blazer, 86 K3500 CC, and GMT400 are probably not large.
Engine efficiency differenced are going to be a total toss-up, especially once you start messing with cams, EFI or carb, tire size, transmission and rear end gearing. Since you don't have a solid understanding of what you are trying to do, you are just as likely to get right into the sweet spot of power and efficiency as you are to be completely outside of it.

I view anecdotal MPG claims the same way I view hunting, fishing, and dating stories... they are almost always wildly overexaggerated.

I'm a engineer by trade and my degree focused on propulsion, so I'm always interested in reading stuff like this. Here's a pretty good scientific breakdown on what you are actually looking at with the relationship between RPM, Power, Force, and fuel consumption. https://takemebeyondthehorizon.word...part-3b-brake-specific-fuel-consumption-bsfc/
There are some good graphs in there showing just how often a vehicle driving around town ends up in a very low efficiency section.
Drivetrain will definitely be more loss, but the weight will probably be the same, Blazer weighed in at 5700 lbs at the metal yard with me and some tools in it, according to the NY dmv my crew cab (which is the absolute basemodel not even a radio from factory, while the blazer is a silverado) weighs 5300, which sounds about right my buddy has a crew cab 8 foot bed diesel Ford from the 90s and that I believe it weighed in at just under 6000, and it isn't a base model. Your right about the aerodynamics, these trucks are all bricks. As for mpg claims I think a lot of it is people choose not to want to believe them. Obviously 12v guys saying their dodge gets 30+mpg is bs and outlandish stories like that but for example my blazer gets 20 easy highway. Factory was rated 17 highway, now mess with gearing, change for a much less restrictive exhaust, slight performance upgrades, and even small things like more efficient synthetic oil, it's not hard to add on a couple to a few mpg. Obviously the biggest difference would be pedal control. I'll check out that link.
 

Nick88

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For mention of overdrive, at some point down the road I'll probably end up installing the gear vendors 4x4 overdrive kit on the truck. That way I will have overdrive but keep my th400 that is gonna be very built.
 

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I just thought it would be better because my tbi gets good mileage
TBI has swirl port heads,they get better milage,that was the point of them. Everyone hates The 193 heads,but they sure get better milage. That and better feel control,timing control and EGR it all adds up
 
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Bextreme04

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Drivetrain will definitely be more loss, but the weight will probably be the same, Blazer weighed in at 5700 lbs at the metal yard with me and some tools in it, according to the NY dmv my crew cab (which is the absolute basemodel not even a radio from factory, while the blazer is a silverado) weighs 5300, which sounds about right my buddy has a crew cab 8 foot bed diesel Ford from the 90s and that I believe it weighed in at just under 6000, and it isn't a base model. Your right about the aerodynamics, these trucks are all bricks. As for mpg claims I think a lot of it is people choose not to want to believe them. Obviously 12v guys saying their dodge gets 30+mpg is bs and outlandish stories like that but for example my blazer gets 20 easy highway. Factory was rated 17 highway, now mess with gearing, change for a much less restrictive exhaust, slight performance upgrades, and even small things like more efficient synthetic oil, it's not hard to add on a couple to a few mpg. Obviously the biggest difference would be pedal control. I'll check out that link.
People choose not to believe it because it isn't true. You don't get better MPG with all of that added, in fact you usually get worst MPG. You might CALCULATE a higher MPG because you didn't account for how wrong your odometer is now that you changed your gear ratio and tire size though. I can believe 20mpg for a very well designed and tuned SBC in a blazer sized vehicle. But that would need to be absolute best mileage seen and with an OD equipped vehicle on mostly flat ground at slower highway speed. 17MPG highway is pretty much what those get for real life highway mileage.
 

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