Ethanol varnish residue: Carb vs EFI

Frankenchevy · Jun 3, 2024

Grit dog said:
I feel bad for folks who have to live by Cali rules.

It’s crazy. Fortunately I have been able to get around much of the malarkey.

Family and money make it tough to leave. Either I’ll make it til I retire, it’ll get crazier than I can take before then, or a miracle will happen and people in the cities will wake up. Not banking on number three. Number one is the likely scenario and I’ll live like a king just about anywhere else. Only time will tell.

Bennyt · Jun 3, 2024

Pure-gas.org to search ethanol free pumps.

I started buying the ethanol free gas at wal-mart, Lowe's, HD, etc. It's expensive at $5 a quart but it cured all the problems in my small engines. Everything starts first pull and no run-on. The big box stores seem to change brands every few months and I've been lucky to buy it half price several times. I just buy everything they have, sometimes it's 20 cans.

Unfortunately, buying those cans isn't sustainable for businesses like landscapers that use a large amount of fuel.

I know of a couple landscapers that 1
0 years or so ago said they would buy double the equipment as some was always in the shop d/t ethanol damaging hoses, etc. I don't think it is as much an issue now. 10 years ago, the lawnmower shop had a 2 - 6 month wait-list for repairs. They said it was all ethanol related.

Grit dog · Jun 3, 2024

^ Landscapers don’t need good gas nor does anyone if they’re using it before it gums up. If you’re using up your gas every couple months or so run the cheap chit. It’s not going to hurt lawn equipment and low powered engines like 70s and 80s Chevy truck motors! Lol.
My 30 year old mower said it’s just fine. It does like shutting the gas off and running it dry before the off season though.

Grit dog · Jun 3, 2024

Frankenchevy said:
If Billy is near the gulf coast, I could see e10 turning bad relatively quickly there.

Good point.

Grit dog · Jun 3, 2024

Bextreme04 said:
True for many things.. but the one thing that has lately gotten me a little jealous is the lack of stations having E85 up here. Cali has a ton of stations, mostly central california and south of there, that have either mixer pumps or straight E85. It would be doubly nice if I could get a mixer pump in town to run E30 or so. Better mileage, cleaner running, and more power everywhere in the curve with E30. If you just want max power or are putting in heavy towing duties.. E85 makes a world of difference, but mileage suffers for it also.

There’s no E85 up here and haven’t seen it in OeEgon or anywhere north of Colorado and west of Minnesooota.
Great race gas for cheap if you can tune for it!
And I always fill rental cars with it when I can just to test if it’ll blow them up. It doesn’t! Lol

Grit dog · Jun 3, 2024

Frankenchevy said:
It’s crazy. Fortunately I have been able to get around much of the malarkey.

Family and money make it tough to leave. Either I’ll make it til I retire, it’ll get crazier than I can take before then, or a miracle will happen and people in the cities will wake up. Not banking on number three. Number one is the likely scenario and I’ll live like a king just about anywhere else. Only time will tell.

Yup. Nothin to let get in the way of life.
I hear ya. Here’s where the money is and when I’m done making it, I’ll live somewhere where it’s much cheaper.

Bextreme04 · Jun 4, 2024

Grit dog said:
There’s no E85 up here and haven’t seen it in OeEgon or anywhere north of Colorado and west of Minnesooota.
Great race gas for cheap if you can tune for it!
And I always fill rental cars with it when I can just to test if it’ll blow them up. It doesn’t! Lol

They exist, just not very prevalent. The only states without E85 stations seems to be Montana and Utah. We have one station in Portland, two in Eugene and one in Bend.
https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol-locations#/find/nearest?fuel=E85

I'll often fuel up with it before pulling my trailer through the Cascades south-east towards Klamath Falls or if I'm heading east through the gorge towards Idaho or Eastern Washington. It really helps with heat and detonation on summer days and at altitude. I have a tune for ethanol and an ethanol sensor though, so it doesn't really matter what I put in it.

Bextreme04 · Jun 10, 2024

Frankenchevy said:
I thought e85 only helps if you need it with super high compression or boost? It’s actually less energy dense otherwise…

Yes and no. Almost all modern engines are very high compression relatively speaking. An ethanol blend will actually allow you to get better fuel mileage up to about 30-40% blend due to the cooling and octane increasing effects that it has, assuming you have the proper engine management tuning to take advantage of it. E85 lets you stay much cooler and is VERY detonation resistant, which is great for forced induction and max effort type stuff, like towing in hot weather. The energy density difference is about the same between E10 and Diesel as it is between E10 and E85. There is a pretty wide variance in actual content percentages, but diesel has ~12% more energy density than E10. E85 has ~75-85% of the energy density of E10. The trick is that if your engine is detonation limited on achieving the peak torque timing, then running E85 can actually make the engine run more efficiently and not really show any difference in mileage or only a small difference like 5% less mileage. In many states that have lots of E85 pumps(like texas), the E85 is actually significantly cheaper, so it can actually be cheaper to run E85 than regular 87 octane fuel.
https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/properties

Craig Nedrow · Jun 11, 2024

I use seafoam in anything that will not get used on a regular basis like generators, pumps. My fire control pump was giving me fits, took it to a guy that repairs small engines that i've known for a long time. He said use sea foam, and I have been doing that, nothing worse than having a fire over the ridge, and pump won't start. doing good now. Pic from the front porch 2020 Evans Canyon fire. Looks bad for this year, need to get the pump set up....

ChuckN · Jun 11, 2024

Bextreme04 said:
Yes and no. Almost all modern engines are very high compression relatively speaking. An ethanol blend will actually allow you to get better fuel mileage up to about 30-40% blend due to the cooling and octane increasing effects that it has, assuming you have the proper engine management tuning to take advantage of it. E85 lets you stay much cooler and is VERY detonation resistant, which is great for forced induction and max effort type stuff, like towing in hot weather. The energy density difference is about the same between E10 and Diesel as it is between E10 and E85. There is a pretty wide variance in actual content percentages, but diesel has ~12% more energy density than E10. E85 has ~75-85% of the energy density of E10. The trick is that if your engine is detonation limited on achieving the peak torque timing, then running E85 can actually make the engine run more efficiently and not really show any difference in mileage or only a small difference like 5% less mileage. In many states that have lots of E85 pumps(like texas), the E85 is actually significantly cheaper, so it can actually be cheaper to run E85 than regular 87 octane fuel.
https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/properties

Im curious as to what blend “Gasohol” was back in the 70s when the fuel crunch was happening- anyone know?

Bextreme04 · Jun 11, 2024

ChuckN said:
Im curious as to what blend “Gasohol” was back in the 70s when the fuel crunch was happening- anyone know?

They weren't blending it into regular fuel in the 70's. You didn't have any benefit with the poor efficiency and low compression ratios of the engines either. It wasn't until the 2000's that it started to become more prevalent.

ChuckN · Jun 11, 2024

Bextreme04 said:
They weren't blending it into regular fuel in the 70's. You didn't have any benefit with the poor efficiency and low compression ratios of the engines either. It wasn't until the 2000's that it started to become more prevalent.

Not that it has any relevance to the topic (apologies to the OP), apparently “gasohol” term was used for the first time in 1978 for any gasoline that contained 10 percent or more of ethanol due to the Clean Air Act.

Myself, I’m lucky enough to have 3 stations within 8 miles of me that sell ethanol free gas. I just wish they sold better than 89 octane- it’s not cheap, but my truck isn’t a daily driver.

Grit dog · Jun 12, 2024

ChuckN said:
Not that it has any relevance to the topic (apologies to the OP), apparently “gasohol” term was used for the first time in 1978 for any gasoline that contained 10 percent or more of ethanol due to the Clean Air Act.

Myself, I’m lucky enough to have 3 stations within 8 miles of me that sell ethanol free gas. I just wish they sold better than 89 octane- it’s not cheap, but my truck isn’t a daily driver.

Ya nice that there’s no lack of good gasoline anywhere around here.
In the same 15-20 min from the house can get 87 89 or 91 No E, av gas, race gas at the pump from unleaded to a few flavors of the real good smelling stuff.

Bextreme04 · Jun 12, 2024

Grit dog said:
Ya nice that there’s no lack of good gasoline anywhere around here.
In the same 15-20 min from the house can get 87 89 or 91 No E, av gas, race gas at the pump from unleaded to a few flavors of the real good smelling stuff.

Yeah, pretty much the only thing I CAN'T get is ethanol content greater than 10% easily around me. I have several stations with a few minute drive where I can get ethanol free premium and we have several VP stations that have various race gas flavors. I work at the airport and have access to AV gas through the flying club too, so I could definitely get it if I wanted to... but no thanks on fouling the plugs and everything else that comes with that. My 67 Buick might like it, but it does just fine on the ethanol free premium. Once it is up and running regularly though it will most likely get switched to E10 premium like everything else.

Bennyt · Jun 12, 2024

I've never thought of using e85 for towing during the summer. Might be something to consider. My Suburban was a flex fuel and whenever I used e85, it dropped the mpg by 20-30%. Had a few friends with similar experiences.

We used to have a HHR SS which is probably one of the most powerful production cars ever built HP per CI. 2.0 liter over 300hp w/ GM tune. Mine was supposedly over 325 with 23psi and K&N intake. I never ran it with ethanol but the tune had a setting for e85 and e47 where it would up the boost a few more pounds.

Ethanol varnish residue: Carb vs EFI

Frankenchevy

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