Cluster F*** Timing

[Boone83K10]

Help with timing

Bear with me here this is long post...

I bought an 83 K10 on New Years Day. PO said it originally had a 305 with a Q-jet. It now has a 350 with a Holley 4175 that was swapped in before I bought it. I am going through the truck fixing little things here and there as it is just a play toy/trash hauler.

Here is what I know about the engine.

3970014 block - 68-79 with 2 or 4 bolt depending on what it came out of or 70-76 truck block, depends on what site you look at.
333882 heads - not the best I know. They have been reworked because the VIN stamping on the front pad is gone.
It has power steering and A/C on the driver side of the motor.
The timing cover is not the original 83 because the timing tab in the center is missing. It has no timing tab on it anywhere.
I assume it has an 8 inch(have'nt measured) harmonic balancer that is for the 3970014 block.

I am trying to get this thing tuned up. It runs rich. I bought it at 500 ft elevation and I live at 3500 feet. I have already used a vacuum gauge to tune the idle mixture. I only get 14" of vacuum at idle in park and 11" of vacuum at idle in gear. It is Automatic, and it does have some kind of cam because it thumps hard. It idles good but there is black spots all over the tag and tailgate, and the bumper is black above the tailpipes. I never see any smoke, but it must be running rich to do all that.

I cannot time it because there is no timing tab. I want to start at square one and time the engine then go back and tune the carb. What would be the best way to get a reference point for timing. If I get a 2 oclock timing tab, I can't see it behind the AC and PS. If I get a 12 oclock timing tab, I cannot see the balancer because it stick out and is directly under the water pump.

I want to get this sorted out before I yank the distributor because they used the rubber ends for the intake manifold and it leaks oil, so it will be easier to put it back in if I have the timing tab sorted out.

HELP!!!

 

[tanz45]

Personally....I never used timing tabs. Plus if you have a cam, stock timing is out the window correct? I always did running temp, advance til idle goes up and up til it starts to decrease. Turn off, and crank motor, retard timing until smooth cranking is achieved and not the womp.....womp.....womp kind of cranking.

Should atleast put you dang close.

 

[Boone83K10]

well I said it sounds like it has one, I don't know for sure. My fear is that it runs (ok) now, don't want to fudge it up and not have a running truck with no point of reference for me to go by to get it back up to speed.

I've always tuned Fords as evident by my signature. I can do that Mercury with a blind fold on... but GM is new to me.

 

[Boone83K10]

anyone else? come on help me out here!

 

[bucket]

I always run a timing tab and all my SBC's do good with 6-12 degrees advance. I set the timing where I know it will be happy, no guesswork and no trial/error like setting it by fastest idle speed and then going back depending on detonation or starting issues.

 

[Boone83K10]

that's my problem, I don't have a timing tab. And if I bought one for the 2 oclock position, I can't see it because the PS and AC are in the way. I can't get the 12 oclock one because the water pump hides the balancer (it sticks out too far)... it's almost like they reused 83 brackets/AC/PS components with mid 70s block/timing cover/harmonic balancer...

If I get the timing tab figured out I know how to time an engine...

 

[bucket]

I've had no trouble seeing the tab when there's PS and AC on that side?

 

[Boone83K10]

hold on let me go out here right now and get a picture for you

 

[Boone83K10]

Here you go.. tell me how I am suppose to shoot a light down there...

You must be registered for see images attach

or here...

You must be registered for see images attach

and hell you can see the gasket being pushed out on the intake manifold.. that is what started this whole thing.. that I need to retime the engine after I pull the distributor because it runs so rich right now...

 

[bucket]

You must be registered for see images attach

That rusty spot on the timing cover is where the tab goes. With a clean tab and white paint in the balancer groove, it's very easy to see with the timing light.

 

[Boone83K10]

that's grease/grime and that is the top of the timing cover... there is no evidence of a tab being on there.. EVER. lf I put a tab on it... which one do I get.. pre 70's or an 80s model for the 12 oclock. How will I know... I don't even know what type of balancer is on it.

 

[myC-dime]

if you take your toming light and shine it down from the 12 o'clock position and you see the line on the balancer. Then the tab goes on the top. If you casn't see it then it should go on at the 2 o'clock postion.

 

[MrMarty51]

2:00 position.
If it were Me,before pulling that manifold,I would get that thing to running REAL good,then when it goes back together if there is a problem You aint chasing a lot of ghosts.
I woulkd also,if iut were Mine,do a complete tuneup,then I know where I am at with the beast with the RIGHT plugs and plug wires,new rotor/dist. cap and if then it is still running rich,tune the carb,sounds like there is either something breaking down in the ignition system or else too big of jets in the carb.
BUT get it tuned before tearing.

 

[robert8096]

Pull the number one plug and rotate the engine by hand to find TDC on the compression stroke. Place a mark on the timing cover in an area where you can hit it with a timing light. Then place a mark on the harmonic balancer that corresponds to the mark you made on the timing cover. Use these marks for 0 TDC reference. Get a timing light with the advance/retard feature and use the advance/retard feature to set your 6-12 degrees based on your TDC marks.

 

[Boone83K10]

I am leaning more toward the 12 o clock tab. just have to be sure where the mark is on balancer. the 2 o clock wont work at all as evident by the pic showing I wont be able to see it. I am trying to get it tuned right. I will keep ya posted.