Wrong kick down bracket

[Raider L]

For the longest now I have had these pesky transmission problems. They are to extensive to go into again for those of you who don't know about them but you can look for my name on threads on this site and read some of the earlier ones.

But after all this time I thought I could do what I wanted to do in getting my trans back to, or rather where it should be by just getting it overhauled. But I might have known it wouldn't be that easy as nothing is ever that easy for me and what I want to do. I always have to fight for what I want. What I'm talking about is, I did get the transmission overhauled by a highly reputable shop. They did a okay job but they weren't able to get the tuning done because the suspension was screwed. I needed to have it overhauled first because they didn't want to drive the truck in the shape it was in, and I didn't blame them. The suspension rebuild has been done.

Now I have discovered that either they put the wrong spring set in the governor, which I suspect because I turned the screw in the back of the modulator valve two full turns in and it didn't make the trans shift later like I wanted it to do, but 1-2 shift a bit firmer which is okay but did not solve the problem of a overall early shift. I want it to shift later like it used to do. I'm completely unable to whind it out in Drive. As soon as it hits 20 mph it already shifts to 3rd and that's it no matter how much gas I give it taking off. I can whind it out if I manually shift it, I tried it today and it's fine. It's the governor I strongly suspect. It's probably a light set of springs and may not be the weights. But I don't know, I have no idea what they did to it, I have no idea what they found was wrong with it, I didn't get any kind of paper saying what they did to it.

But since they couldn't drive it there is no way they could have test drove it to see what the governor was doing unless they just test drove in street traffic which wouldn't have told them anything. It needed to have been tested a WOT to really get an idea of what the governor is doing.

But here's what I discovered yesterday and that is I'm still using the 2 bbl. kick down bracket when it had a 2 bbl. on it. The bracket is fine where the throttle cable is, it's on it's own bracket. But the kick down cable which is on another bracket behind the throttle one is to far back for the kick down to come close to attaching to where it should go on the carb linkage, without that stupid little link bar thing. The truck has a 4 bbl. on it now with a Edelbrock Performer intake on the engine with a Holley 600 cfm 4 bbl. So since the kick down cable is out of position it won't kick down anywhere near where it should, heck it won't even work right. So, tonight I ordered a Holley kick down bracket strictly for a 4 bbl. on a Edelbrock intake on a small block Chevy 350 and a TH350 trans.. I'll get that on and see if at least I have the kick down restored. Then I may have to call that shop back and tell them they needed to have done more tuning with the governor and see if they have time to fool with it.

After I had the suspension rebuilt I was going to take it back over to the trans shop and have them work on it some more, but when I said I was going to do that they said they had done all they could do.

 

[Raider L]

Here's some pics I took back when I was having all my problems.

You must be registered for see images attach

This is what I had to get to hook the kick down cable back up to the carb since it won't even begin to make it to where it's supposed to go which is where the other end of that link with the holes in it, is attached on the main carb linkage with that hex bolt.

You must be registered for see images attach

You can see that the throttle linkage looks fine and does pull it to full wide open throttle. It's just what happens to the kick down linkage, that's when it really does weird things that I hope will be eliminated when I put the Holley bracket on. The kick down bracket is separate from the throttle bracket and is way back there towards the back of the block. It is definately in the wrong place. You know, I don't ever remember that 2 bbl. ever having something that allowed the kick down cable to be that far away from the carb. But I guess it did because this is the stock bracketry.

The obvious question some may be thinking is, "Why did you leave it that way? Didn't it ever malfunction while you were driving it, didn't it not down shift to second when you got into it?
Well, the answer to that question is I never used it...in 25 years! Didn't I ever whind it out in Drive and saw it wasn't going through the gears right? I never did it that way. If I was going to whind it out I always dropped it into 1st and when my Auto Meter Shift Light lit up I hit 2nd and the light and then 3rd. I never did just nail it in Drive. Weird, huh?

Well now I want it to work right since I have a newly rebuilt trans I want it to work like it's supposed to work.

 

[75gmck25]

You must be registered for see images attach

This is a picture of the stock kick down bracket mounted on my ‘75 GMC. It is mounted on the two rear studs of the Quadrajet carburetor, so the geometry is fixed by the carburetor. When I used an Edelbrock I bought one of their universal brackets and adjusted it to get similar spacing.

Also make sure you pop up the tab and adjust the kickdown cable for proper operation after it’s installed.

 

[Raider L]

@75gmck25, I'm sorry about the length of this. Just take your time.

Man thanks a lot!! That is exactly what I've been trying to find a pic of, the stock setup for a four bbl. 350. The problem is I had a 2 bbl. on my truck originally. I just now was looking in my factory maint. manual to see what the 4 bbl. bracket looked like. Well it wasn't all that clear. But I was going to put the word out that if anyone had the factory bracket for a 4 bbl. off a 350 and they weren't going to use it, I would like to have it. Since the factory bracket is two parts, the rear bracket is the one for the kick down cable. Last November I had to change out the intake gasket and of course I had to take the brackets off. When I was done I put the brackets back on about the only way they can go on. But looking at the pictures in the manual, I don't know, but I could have it set to far back. But I don't think so. I just have the wrong bracket for a 4 bbl. carb and that's all there is to it.

Last night, like I wrote here in this thread, I bought two different brackets from Holley. One is like what you were saying, kinda more or less a universal bracket for both the throttle and the kick down cable. That bracket is fully adjustable for both cables. But the factory throttle bracket I have on there now does pull the throttle to full WOT. So maybe with this particular bracket I bought I'll be able to get the kick down cable adjusted correct.
The other bracket I bought from Holley is just for the kick down cable and is very specific for a 350 engine and a TH350 trans with a Holley, Q-Jet, Rochester, etc. on an Edelbrock manifold specifically.

So, I don't care how many brackets it takes to get it right that won't end the problems I'm having now. Because I'm going to have to either get the trans shop to fix it or deal with it myself and put either another governor in, or change the springs in the one that is/was put in the trans when they rebuilt it, and hope for the best.

I would just like to know, does the kick down cable actually affect the shifting in normal operation, like pulling out into traffic, or pulling out onto interstate. I remember if I was going slow waiting on traffic to clear and got on it, normally, considering I had plenty of room to pull out onto interstate and really didn't have to get into it hard, that I could whind the trans out some and it would change to 3rd at about, I don't know, 45-50 mph? Here's the scenario, like what I just discribed and I really don't know where the throttle linkage would be, maybe half way? maybe, at that point would the kick down be having an affect on the shift point in the 2-3 shift since that's kinda of a similar scenario of getting into it as if you're already doing 55 mph, and mashed down a little on the peddle and it went into kick down to pass someone?
Except in the first scenario above, the throttle isn't moving suddenly as in passing but rather more gradually accelerating onto interstate, or a street from a much slower speed. Is the kick down valve opening slower to let the gears shift at a higher speed, i.e. 45-50 mph, allowing me to whind out between 1-2, 2-3?
I'm just trying to establish what the kick down valving does instead of it just down shifting to 2nd just to pass. Or is it working but not so suddenly like it does in passing, shifting through to 2nd, the engine whinds out to a higher speed then it shifts to 3rd. While pulling out onto interstate, or a street with a speed of 45-50 having to accelerate up to street speed and the engine is whinding out to shift to 3rd. is the kick down valving working then to?
If that's the case then the kick down cable would need to be in a certain place in order for it to affect the 1-2-2-3 shift but at a higher speed.

I'm not even beginning to talk about WOT. Right now, as I have stated already no matter how much gas you give it, stopped or just barely rolling then give it a lot of gas, the 2-3 three shift comes in at 20 to 21 mph no matter what. After that it's all carburator. I don't get to use the trans gears to accelerate, it's all carb. That is wasting gas. At part throttle you know that you can hold the peddle in place when you see the trans is going to pull you up to street speed and it's the trans gears that are doing the acceleration not you having to give it more gas.

 

[Raider L]

@75gmck25,

Can you take a little closer pic of where the kick down is attached to your carb and where the bracket is at the kick down adjuster?

 

[rpcraft]

That kick down bracket looks like some home brew solution. Usually they are hard affixed and will not swivel. I think the problem you are having is that bracket is moving as you are putting more tension on it and messing with the reaction point of your transmisson. I think the other problem is you need to find a new trans shop if they see that, think that is the most they can do, and are not willing to fix it further.

This is an idea of what a fixed "kick down bracket" should look like on the carb linkage:

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Raider L]

@ rpcraft,

Yes, I understand about the throttle rod being there. I am only looking at the kick down cable bracket. And, no, my brackets have two bolts attaching the throttle and the kick down cable together and I know they are bolted down tight. My kick down bracket is from the old 2 bbl. carb that used to be on there and that's what I'm changing. But, yes, I see how yours is attached to the main carb linkage. Mine isn't. It's attached to a link bar from Holley that I have no idea the application for it. I just thought it would work in my application. I doesn't, but I never used the kick down so I don't really know.

Yeah, I agree about the trans shop. But I'm going to call them and see what they say. It's partly my fault because of this kick down bracket left them no way to do any shift testing at WOT, and they said they couldn't drive it with the suspension like it was. You know for insurance reasons because if they got out there and had a wreck because they thought it would be safe to drive the truck like it was then I could sue them for wrecking my truck. So I agreed for them to not drive it. But I told them I was going to bring it back over there when the suspension was rebuilt. That's when he said, no, it was done. That leaves me with no recourse. So, Yeah, I might look for some one to "adjust the transmission". That would be easy enough for a shop to do and wouldn't cost me much of anything. That way it'll have a new kick down bracket on it and they could do the governor adjustments from there.

 

[AuroraGirl]

I have a 2 barrel th350 bracket on my truck only holding a throttle cable, incorrectly, because I don’t know what it’s supposed to go in but not a truck. It’s a car engine per the code. But it wasn’t a 2 barrel. Scratch. I did take a 2 barrel off.. idk.

but I have one that has a kick down cable attached and frankly I’m not sure what it was ripped out of because it was literally ripped but I think the bracket is still good.

did you need one or did you make it work it seems?

 

[rpcraft]

@ rpcraft,

Yes, I understand about the throttle rod being there. I am only looking at the kick down cable bracket. And, no, my brackets have two bolts attaching the throttle and the kick down cable together and I know they are bolted down tight. My kick down bracket is from the old 2 bbl. carb that used to be on there and that's what I'm changing. But, yes, I see how yours is attached to the main carb linkage. Mine isn't. It's attached to a link bar from Holley that I have no idea the application for it. I just thought it would work in my application. I doesn't, but I never used the kick down so I don't really know.

Yeah, I agree about the trans shop. But I'm going to call them and see what they say. It's partly my fault because of this kick down bracket left them no way to do any shift testing at WOT, and they said they couldn't drive it with the suspension like it was. You know for insurance reasons because if they got out there and had a wreck because they thought it would be safe to drive the truck like it was then I could sue them for wrecking my truck. So I agreed for them to not drive it. But I told them I was going to bring it back over there when the suspension was rebuilt. That's when he said, no, it was done. That leaves me with no recourse. So, Yeah, I might look for some one to "adjust the transmission". That would be easy enough for a shop to do and wouldn't cost me much of anything. That way it'll have a new kick down bracket on it and they could do the governor adjustments from there.

Understandable. Definitely hard for a shop to work when there are other issues afoot. I hope you get it worked out. As long as you have the 350 the kick down point is just going to suck and at least its not like the TV cable on a 700r4 where it will smoke the tranny if you drive it around the block, lol!

 

[Raider L]

@rpcraft,

Man, isn't that the truth about the TV cable. I'd need a ton more stuff than just a 'ol bracket.
Thanks for the best wishes. I'm going to call him Monday just to see what he says. See the guy owns this tiny little shop with about six guys working there. When I first went there, there must have been twenty or more cars and trucks parked all around the place. It took him two and a half weeks just to rebuild a simple TH350 that someone like @Matt69olds could probably do in about two days. This shop is so busy I was lucky I got in at all. When I went over there to pay and the wrecker came to get it I think he had even more cars and trucks there, all newer ones. He did have a couple of hot rods there having their trans done to, I guess.

 

[Raider L]

@AuroraGirl,

I've got two different kick down brackets coming in from Holley. If I can't get those two to work then I don't know. But I'm sure I'll get something to work. I mentioned to @Matt69olds that if he had one, or knew someone who had a kick down bracket they know is off a 350 with a Q-Jet I would see about getting it to see if it would be closer to stock 4 bbl. setup.
One of the brackets I've got coming is an adjustable one for both throttle and kick down. The other one I have coming is for just the kick down and isn't adjustable is a very specific one Holley has for a 350, with a Edelbrock dual plane intake, and a Holley carb. But it works with other carbs as well but attached to a Edelbrock intake dual plane with a Q-Jet, Rochester 4 bbl.'s.
So, I'll see if that puts the kick down in a better position like I should have done back when I built the truck. Why I kept the 2 bbl. kick down bracket for my new 4 bbl. I just don't know. But as it turned out I only used it one time in 25 years to get out from some tractor trailer rigs out on interstate one day I was sandwiched between. I remember I had to practically floor it to get it to work. You should only have to go three quarters throttle to get it to kick down.

 

[AuroraGirl]

@AuroraGirl,

I've got two different kick down brackets coming in from Holley. If I can't get those two to work then I don't know. But I'm sure I'll get something to work. I mentioned to @Matt69olds that if he had one, or knew someone who had a kick down bracket they know is off a 350 with a Q-Jet I would see about getting it to see if it would be closer to stock 4 bbl. setup.
One of the brackets I've got coming is an adjustable one for both throttle and kick down. The other one I have coming is for just the kick down and isn't adjustable is a very specific one Holley has for a 350, with a Edelbrock dual plane intake, and a Holley carb. But it works with other carbs as well but attached to a Edelbrock intake dual plane with a Q-Jet, Rochester 4 bbl.'s.
So, I'll see if that puts the kick down in a better position like I should have done back when I built the truck. Why I kept the 2 bbl. kick down bracket for my new 4 bbl. I just don't know. But as it turned out I only used it one time in 25 years to get out from some tractor trailer rigs out on interstate one day I was sandwiched between. I remember I had to practically floor it to get it to work. You should only have to go three quarters throttle to get it to kick down.

yeah I understand my current bracket is back on the intake where it bolts to two spots and the throttle cable gets shoved rear so it has a small wavey ness to it as to be the same length over a shorter distance once it’s anchored. Then the spring hole for the throttle was in a spot that made it cross over the throttle cable and then twist around it a bit so it was interefence with my 1604 or what’s for edelbrock. Then, I just don’t have a th350 so I have an empty cable holder slot

You must be registered for see images attach

The context of this was my cousins taurus is sitting in my yard.. and he won’t even entertain the fact his throttle cable is boinked when he couldn’t figure out it’s behavior of weird running and shifts weird…

they didn’t even leave the damn keys so I could move it…


AnywY, the kick down on that is the bracket I mentioned I found. Not sure what its for tho

Unless it’s a two piece throttle cable part idk

 

[Raider L]

Thanks anyway. Those brackets are supposed to be in tomorrow then I'll see how much closer to the Holley linkage one of them gets the kick down. I'll choose one, put it on and drive it to see where it kicks down. I'm going to try the adjustable one first and then the fixed one to see if the fixed one will approximate that same distance. I'd rather not give up my factory throttle bracket because it works fine, but if I can get it the same with the adjustable one, which has a place for throttle to I may just use it.

If changing the kick down doesn't change things enough, which honestly I don't think it will, I'll have to call the trans shop. I have not called them yet. I wanted to wait and see what the kick down bracket change would do first. But at least if I have to hand it back to them to adjust the governor it'll have the right kick down bracket on the engine he can work with in case he has to adjust it to. Better than that 2 bbl. bracket.