Starter solenoid wiring issues, please help.

[AyWoSch Motors]

Help me out here, I'm stumped.
I was just wiring up my jeep with a starter solenoid, and I can't make it work.

So the starter doesn't have a solenoid built in, and I needed to be able start it with my ignition switch, so I figured it needed a solenoid. Found one in my "big box o parts", looks like every one I've ever seen.
I wired it up just like I have every other time, but this time it's not working.
Battery grounded to the block, positive lead going to one side of the solenoid, a lead going from the other side to the starter, a wire going from the positive battery lead to a push button starter switch, and a wire going from the switch to the starter tab on the solenoid..

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Now I know this is hacked big time, but it should work.
I just want to be able to start it and make sure it runs, before I go any farther.
If you connect it directly, it cranks no prob.
Everything should work, I just don't know what I did wrong.
Only thing I could think of is maybe it isn't a starter solenoid, but it sure does look like one.

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[SirRobyn0]

Ok you have the wiring right. Though I can't tell from the pictures which small terminal the small wire should be attached to. The only thing I can think of is that the solenoid you are using needs to be grounded in order for it to be able to slam the contacts shut inside. So make sure that solenoid has a good ground.

The only other thing I can think of is defective solenoid or switch.

 

[Bextreme04]

You need to connect the other small terminal in front to batt ground. There is an incomplete circuit for the solenoid coil with nothing connected to the other small terminal. You can sometimes get away with not connecting anything to that if you have the solenoid mounted to the body because the coil will have a poor ground through the mounting ear sometimes. They also make solenoids with a single coil terminal that are actually purposely grounded through the mounting tabs, this is not one of those solenoids though. You should hear an audible clunk when you make a complete circuit on the coil as it pulls the plunger down to make contact between the two main lugs.

 

[eskimomann209]

I’ll agree with posts above.
There’s no ground your circuit is floating. Usually there is a mounting ground on those if not it’s gunna need one of those smaller studs to be a ground. Test wisely and don’t let the magic smoke out.

 

[SirRobyn0]

[/QUOTE]

You need to connect the other small terminal in front to batt ground. There is an incomplete circuit for the solenoid coil with nothing connected to the other small terminal. You can sometimes get away with not connecting anything to that if you have the solenoid mounted to the body because the coil will have a poor ground through the mounting ear sometimes. They also make solenoids with a single coil terminal that are actually purposely grounded through the mounting tabs, this is not one of those solenoids though. You should hear an audible clunk when you make a complete circuit on the coil as it pulls the plunger down to make contact between the two main lugs.

Unless this is a different solenoid than I'm use to none of the wires goes to ground. The two small wires, one goes to the ignition switch for cranking, the other could, but does not have to go to the ignition coil. It will function fine without a wire to the ignition system but the body of the solenoid must be grounded, that's why the mounting tabs are made out of metal. If you know the part# of the solenoid I'm sure I could look up a diagram and then we'd all know for sure. The style I'm think of usually had ear one of those wires marked with a letter, one with I for ignition the other with S for start.

 

[eskimomann209]

Unless this is a different solenoid than I'm use to none of the wires goes to ground. The two small wires, one goes to the ignition switch for cranking, the other could, but does not have to go to the ignition coil. It will function fine without a wire to the ignition system but the body of the solenoid must be grounded, that's why the mounting tabs are made out of metal. If you know the part# of the solenoid I'm sure I could look up a diagram and then we'd all know for sure. The style I'm think of usually had ear one of those wires marked with a letter, one with I for ignition the other with S for start.
[/QUOTE]


I’m inclined to agree, but I don’t see any mounting ears on his.

Unless those tiny little ears are them.
Looks like they were trimmed at some point in their life.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Unless this is a different solenoid than I'm use to none of the wires goes to ground. The two small wires, one goes to the ignition switch for cranking, the other could, but does not have to go to the ignition coil. It will function fine without a wire to the ignition system but the body of the solenoid must be grounded, that's why the mounting tabs are made out of metal. If you know the part# of the solenoid I'm sure I could look up a diagram and then we'd all know for sure. The style I'm think of usually had ear one of those wires marked with a letter, one with I for ignition the other with S for start.

I’m inclined to agree, but I don’t see any mounting ears on his.

Unless those tiny little ears are them.
Looks like they were trimmed at some point in their life.
[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure I can the ears in the first, third and fourth pictures. In the first they are kind of buried in his hand, in the third they are above the terminals in the back, and fourth on the mount has the numbers printed on it.

Well I just looked up the numbers on in the fourth picture and came up with this diagram. Pretty clearly shows the layout of the terminals.

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[AyWoSch Motors]

Ok you have the wiring right. Though I can't tell from the pictures which small terminal the small wire should be attached to. The only thing I can think of is that the solenoid you are using needs to be grounded in order for it to be able to slam the contacts shut inside. So make sure that solenoid has a good ground.

The only other thing I can think of is defective solenoid or switch.

You need to connect the other small terminal in front to batt ground. There is an incomplete circuit for the solenoid coil with nothing connected to the other small terminal. You can sometimes get away with not connecting anything to that if you have the solenoid mounted to the body because the coil will have a poor ground through the mounting ear sometimes. They also make solenoids with a single coil terminal that are actually purposely grounded through the mounting tabs, this is not one of those solenoids though. You should hear an audible clunk when you make a complete circuit on the coil as it pulls the plunger down to make contact between the two main lugs.

Oh I had it grounded, but I unbolted it for the picture, because where I had it bolted, it was hard to get to with the phone.
I thought about that this morning though, and thought maybe it was a clean ground, so I sanded it to shiney metal on all the contact points and reinstalled it. Still nothing.

 

[AyWoSch Motors]

I determined its just a defective part. It looked brand new, never been used, but maybe just wasn't right.
So I stole the one off my tractor this afternoon to see if it was my wiring or it. It's worked great, cranked over no problem, my switch worked well. So it wasn't me, im happy, I'm just gonna buy a new one now and throw that one any. The one I used off my tractor looked exactly like that one, but this one worked, lol.

So no worries, problem solved. Thank you for your help. If anyone wants that old one, they can have it, haha.

And of course getting that working uncovered up 10 other things I need to fix now to get it running, haha, but that's the way it always works.

 

[SirRobyn0]

@AyWoSch Motors Thanks for the conclusion information and glad you have it figured out.

 

[Bextreme04]

Unless this is a different solenoid than I'm use to none of the wires goes to ground. The two small wires, one goes to the ignition switch for cranking, the other could, but does not have to go to the ignition coil. It will function fine without a wire to the ignition system but the body of the solenoid must be grounded, that's why the mounting tabs are made out of metal. If you know the part# of the solenoid I'm sure I could look up a diagram and then we'd all know for sure. The style I'm think of usually had ear one of those wires marked with a letter, one with I for ignition the other with S for start.
[/QUOTE]
That's good info, I've never seen one like that.

 

[73c20jim]

Missing wire to ground?

I’m inclined to agree, but I don’t see any mounting ears on his.

Unless those tiny little ears are them.
Looks like they were trimmed at some point in their life.

Pretty sure I can the ears in the first, third and fourth pictures. In the first they are kind of buried in his hand, in the third they are above the terminals in the back, and fourth on the mount has the numbers printed on it.

Well I just looked up the numbers on in the fourth picture and came up with this diagram. Pretty clearly shows the layout of the terminals.

You must be registered for see images attach

[/QUOTE]
I do not understand this diagram.

The ignition switch is connect to BOTH small terminals. I thought the two little terminals activated the relay. One to starter switch and the other to ground to complete the circuit.

 

[SirRobyn0]

I do not understand this diagram.

The ignition switch is connect to BOTH small terminals. I thought the two little terminals activated the relay. One to starter switch and the other to ground to complete the circuit.

So this is basically a Ford style relay, one of a few types they used, now sometimes sold as a generic relay. The two big and two small terminal relays like this one, the small terminal marked I went to the + side of the coil because the power from the ignition switch to the plus side of the coil went though a resistor dropping the voltage to 9 volts, so in this way Ford could get 12 volts to the plus side of their coil during cranking. The mounting tabs acted as the ground. There maybe some relays that connect just the way you are talking but it's not one I've ever had to deal with. If a guy didn't need to send 12 volts to an ignition system during cranking it's perfectly fine not to hook anything to the terminal marked with I. So it's not so much that both terminals are connected to the ignition switch tough in a way they are it's more about getting full voltage to the coil when cranking.