Rookie Mistake Need Help

[Cutlas3391]

Ok guys im new at this so be kind with comments. I started off with this bubble gum 1985 chevy c10 pickup short bed which i always wanted to lower one. So i gather up all the information i could to started my build. Remeber up where im from snow country nobody does anything like this so information is hard to come by. So my goal was to just drop the truck enough so the front wheels would just make it before they rub and the rear wheels the same. Trust me i would love to bag the truck it wont fit in the budget. So the front i replace everything except the lower control. Theres drop spindles in the front 2 1/2 drop with 1 inch slotted rotors. I also cut the springs down one coil link in which i think is my problem.(Shame on me to cut them i got bad info on that) Also added 4 new drop shocks. The rear flip kit and rear shackle to lower the back.

So the front is to low and many of my questions is when i add the bed back on in which i think its 500lbs with bumper how much more is it going to drop the rear end with the weight? Also should i replace the front leaf spring hanger i think its original and the guy before me was a hacker on this truck. Now for the front end if i put original coil spring back in the bucket i think that will bring the front end back up? dont get me wrong i love the truck that low but cant turn the wheels with out bag system. I dont care about the wheel wells i can lose them so the tire can move freely in there. also C notch the frame not a big fan but if its and option i will do it.

So overall im a mess on the truck and need your guys expert advice and please nice on the comments and my work im a rookie. This truck i been working on the last three months has kind of save me. I lost my job after 15 years about 4 months ago and ran into some health issues that wont allow me to get back for awhile. So my late nights working on it is helping me to keep busy into i can go back to work. Thanks Rookie

 

[Jarhead79]

It looks like you've got about a 5/7 or 5/6 drop with your setup as is, so you lowered the front 2.5" with the spindles and cut 1 coil off a set of stock springs or 1 coil off some lowering springs?! One coil removed shouldn't be more than two inches of drop. Maybe even 1 1/2" per coil.

 

[Jarhead79]

J knight is the man when it comes to this, well I'm sure there are others but he has informed me quite a bit in things and knows his stuff! Here's mine with 2 cut coils and a leaf removed, everything else is stock. The front springs have a rider in both springs to get the front up a bit, otherwise it's much lower in front.

 

[Cutlas3391]

It looks like you've got about a 5/7 or 5/6 drop with your setup as is, so you lowered the front 2.5" with the spindles and cut 1 coil off a set of stock springs or 1 coil off some lowering springs?! One coil removed shouldn't be more than two inches of drop. Maybe even 1 1/2" per coil.

Yea they where just stock springs I just cut off one full ring figuring the same thing in inches. I'm wondering if the coil springs are just worn out and are no good. Thanks I like the way yours sit.

 

[smoothandlow84]

Cutting springs is usually a bad idea as they dont always sit evenly in the cups. As you have stated, the front coils may be just worn our and sag a bit more than you like. I would suggest buying some drop coils. The front will sit even and the spring rates will be correct. As far as the rear, a mini notch woukd help with the rear axle clearance. With the 7 " drop, your axle will smack the frame. They do serve a purpose and are worth the time and effort in my opinion. You will also want to add polyurethane bump stops to the underside of the c notch.

My truck has a 5, 7 drop. The front...drop coils, drop spindles, custom fenderwells for tire clearance. I have 20x8 fronts and 255x45x20 tires. The rear...drop hangers, axle flip kit, overload spring removed and a mini notch for now ( bags are next step). The rears are 20x10...with 305x40x20.

You also want to check other clearance items such as the frame rails and your driveline since you have the bed off. I notched and reinforced my frame crossmembers in order to make sure there is not interference between them and the driveline while the suspension cyles.

I will be bagging my truck soon, but first I need to address the fuel tanks. I may end up body dropping instead...cant decide.

 

[J Knight]

Ok guys im new at this so be kind with comments. I started off with this bubble gum 1985 chevy c10 pickup short bed which i always wanted to lower one. So i gather up all the information i could to started my build. Remeber up where im from snow country nobody does anything like this so information is hard to come by. So my goal was to just drop the truck enough so the front wheels would just make it before they rub and the rear wheels the same. Trust me i would love to bag the truck it wont fit in the budget. So the front i replace everything except the lower control. Theres drop spindles in the front 2 1/2 drop with 1 inch slotted rotors. I also cut the springs down one coil link in which i think is my problem.(Shame on me to cut them i got bad info on that) Also added 4 new drop shocks. The rear flip kit and rear shackle to lower the back.

So the front is to low and many of my questions is when i add the bed back on in which i think its 500lbs with bumper how much more is it going to drop the rear end with the weight? Also should i replace the front leaf spring hanger i think its original and the guy before me was a hacker on this truck. Now for the front end if i put original coil spring back in the bucket i think that will bring the front end back up? dont get me wrong i love the truck that low but cant turn the wheels with out bag system. I dont care about the wheel wells i can lose them so the tire can move freely in there. also C notch the frame not a big fan but if its and option i will do it.

So overall im a mess on the truck and need your guys expert advice and please nice on the comments and my work im a rookie. This truck i been working on the last three months has kind of save me. I lost my job after 15 years about 4 months ago and ran into some health issues that wont allow me to get back for awhile. So my late nights working on it is helping me to keep busy into i can go back to work. Thanks Rookie

You shouldn't be that low with 1 round cut off the stock springs and spindles.
I have never had an issue with cutting springs, the spring rate debate is nonsense imo. I hear more complaints about the ride of drop springs than the ride of cut springs. Both my trucks have cut springs with no issues.
All three trucks in the pic below have spindles and cut springs(one round).
Are the springs you cut original to the truck? You said the PO was a hack, did he cut them before you got the truck?

I don't see anything wrong with your hangers, not sure why you would want to change them.

As far as the c-notch, you need a minimum of 2in of clearance between your axle tube and the bottom of the frame with the bump stop bracket removed. Less than 2 notch it, more than 2in you don't have to.

 

[Cutlas3391]

You shouldn't be that low with 1 round cut off the stock springs and spindles.
I have never had an issue with cutting springs, the spring rate debate is nonsense imo. I hear more complaints about the ride of drop springs than the ride of cut springs. Both my trucks have cut springs with no issues.
All three trucks in the pic below have spindles and cut springs(one round).
Are the springs you cut original to the truck? You said the PO was a hack, did he cut them before you got the truck?

I don't see anything wrong with your hangers, not sure why you would want to change them.

As far as the c-notch, you need a minimum of 2in of clearance between your axle tube and the bottom of the frame with the bump stop bracket removed. Less than 2 notch it, more than 2in you don't have to.

Awesome thanks for the advice. Thats true on the springs he might of cut them before i never thought of that good point. Ethier way i order new stock coil springs for the front and if i like the way it sits with the new springs ill leave it alone. If not ill remove one ring again and hopefully that will solve everything. Awesome thanks again! I love the way your black trucks sit!

 

[Cutlas3391]

Cutting springs is usually a bad idea as they dont always sit evenly in the cups. As you have stated, the front coils may be just worn our and sag a bit more than you like. I would suggest buying some drop coils. The front will sit even and the spring rates will be correct. As far as the rear, a mini notch woukd help with the rear axle clearance. With the 7 " drop, your axle will smack the frame. They do serve a purpose and are worth the time and effort in my opinion. You will also want to add polyurethane bump stops to the underside of the c notch.

My truck has a 5, 7 drop. The front...drop coils, drop spindles, custom fenderwells for tire clearance. I have 20x8 fronts and 255x45x20 tires. The rear...drop hangers, axle flip kit, overload spring removed and a mini notch for now ( bags are next step). The rears are 20x10...with 305x40x20.

You also want to check other clearance items such as the frame rails and your driveline since you have the bed off. I notched and reinforced my frame crossmembers in order to make sure there is not interference between them and the driveline while the suspension cyles.

I will be bagging my truck soon, but first I need to address the fuel tanks. I may end up body dropping instead...cant decide.

Holy cow that truck sits perfect that my goal just like yours! The truck is awesome looking!! i love the square exhaust tip out the side i wasnt a big fan of those tips but it looks perfect for that truck i might have to rob your idea..As for the custom fender wells did you fab yourself or can you buy them somewhere? I was just going to fab my own up. Thanks again for the advice i love your truck!

 

[yevgenievich]

Awesome thanks for the advice. Thats true on the springs he might of cut them before i never thought of that good point. Ethier way i order new stock coil springs for the front and if i like the way it sits with the new springs ill leave it alone. If not ill remove one ring again and hopefully that will solve everything. Awesome thanks again! I love the way your black trucks sit!

If cutting, cut 1/4 at a time. It takes little to get a large drop

 

[smoothandlow84]

Holy cow that truck sits perfect that my goal just like yours! The truck is awesome looking!! i love the square exhaust tip out the side i wasnt a big fan of those tips but it looks perfect for that truck i might have to rob your idea..As for the custom fender wells did you fab yourself or can you buy them somewhere? I was just going to fab my own up. Thanks again for the advice i love your truck!

Thanks....

In the past and with a smaller build budget, I did cut instead of buy the parts. To each his own and yes the spring rates with drop coils versus stock will always be a debate, especially when on a budget. Sometimes doing a bit more research and learning from mistakes made makes the difference between a quality build and well.....a garage build. There is a market for drop coils for a reason and its not just for profit. If you decide on cutting a coil, its still far better than heating them. Heat will dramatically change the spring rate.

The exhaust side exit and shape just made sense to me. Being a "square body", meant square tips. I have had a lot of positive feedback with them. It seems to be a focal point when the truck is parked at shows. It took a bit of templating and bending to get them just right, but well worth it in my opinion. I wanted something different since I have true duals. Clearance above my rear axle was an issue as well. The p.o. had the exhaust routed above the axle, dumping the exhaust under the truck. The truck was loud, the exhaust fumes were horrible (long tube headers and no emissions on this truck). The side exits made the most sense. Finding a shop with the talent was key.

The front fenderwells can be addressed in a variety of ways. At first, I opted to remove them completely, but this isnt a trailer queen truck. Although rain isnt much of an issue in Az, its hard to keep the engine compartment clean without fenderwells. I fabbed my own using 14 gauge sheet steel, mimicking the curve of the oem, but cutting the arch much higher into the inner side fenders. Some others purchase pre made steel trailer fenders for tandem axle trailers and cut them in half..one trailer fender equals two fenderwells.

 

[Cutlas3391]

That's a great idea funny u said that I ha email a 2 set of trailer fenders laying around I never thought of that. For my area Buffalo,NY well I'm south of Buffalo and I get pounded with lake effect snow last year we had 7 feet in 48 hours so this c10 will be a summer ride only. Alot of guys here obviously prefer the 4x4 square boxes up in my area. I'm like freak with this truck and the other chevy fans think I'm crazy. I did also steal your idea I order a set square tips sorry it's just way cool look! Actually the ones I order where off an 1991 oldsmobile trofeo. Also yes already made some costly money mistakes with this truck but overall there awesome to work on and I love the way they look. I got the bug now I might consider selling my 1995 yukon gt or 2006 trailblazer ss to make room for another one. Thanks again

 

[J Knight]

Thanks....

In the past and with a smaller build budget, I did cut instead of buy the parts. To each his own and yes the spring rates with drop coils versus stock will always be a debate, especially when on a budget. Sometimes doing a bit more research and learning from mistakes made makes the difference between a quality build and well.....a garage build. There is a market for drop coils for a reason and its not just for profit. If you decide on cutting a coil, its still far better than heating them. Heat will dramatically change the spring rate.

The exhaust side exit and shape just made sense to me. Being a "square body", meant square tips. I have had a lot of positive feedback with them. It seems to be a focal point when the truck is parked at shows. It took a bit of templating and bending to get them just right, but well worth it in my opinion. I wanted something different since I have true duals. Clearance above my rear axle was an issue as well. The p.o. had the exhaust routed above the axle, dumping the exhaust under the truck. The truck was loud, the exhaust fumes were horrible (long tube headers and no emissions on this truck). The side exits made the most sense. Finding a shop with the talent was key.

The front fenderwells can be addressed in a variety of ways. At first, I opted to remove them completely, but this isnt a trailer queen truck. Although rain isnt much of an issue in Az, its hard to keep the engine compartment clean without fenderwells. I fabbed my own using 14 gauge sheet steel, mimicking the curve of the oem, but cutting the arch much higher into the inner side fenders. Some others purchase pre made steel trailer fenders for tandem axle trailers and cut them in half..one trailer fender equals two fenderwells.

Just to verify your meaning here

Cut springs=garage build

Bought drop springs=quality build

???

 

[Cutlas3391]

Actually I bought the stock coil springs set and the drop spring set and see which ones will work better.

 

[smoothandlow84]

Just to verify your meaning here

Cut springs=garage build

Bought drop springs=quality build

???

What reputable fab shop do you know of that cuts coils? Modifying stock parts to do a task that they weren't originally engineered to do...yeah...definitely a garage build. Cutting coils goes back to the days of not having options for lowering the front end of vehicles (as well asheating the coils). Not saying its the best way, but to each their own. If your on a budget build, cut, weld fabricate what suits you. I could be wrong, but it sounds like you're offended when someone has a different opinion when it comes to drop coils. There is also a variety of spring rates available believe it or not. Too soft a spring rate= lower ride height...too hard= higher ride height.You mentioned earlier that you prefer rear shock extenders too rather than using larger bore, shorter drop shocks. Once again, that's your opinion. I prefer using drop shocks...different strokes for different folks.

 

[J Knight]

What reputable fab shop do you know of that cuts coils?

I haven't been to any reputable fab shops(don't have enough funds to aquire their services) but I have seen a number of various builds over the years online and tv that have done it.

Modifying stock parts to do a task that they weren't originally engineered to do...yeah...definitely a garage build.

Seen LOTS of this on Overhaulin alone.

Cutting coils goes back to the days of not having options for lowering the front end of vehicles (as well asheating the coils). Not saying its the best way, but to each their own.

Cutting coils is perfectly acceptable with a band saw or even a cutting disc but it doesn't render the spring useless. I know the spring is heat treated/ tempered/flash cooled(I can remember the name of the process) and can crack from the heat of cutting supposedly but out of the many that I have done, seen done, read that were done, I have yet to hear the first story of one that has cracked or broke from being cut. Now as far as heating the spring, that's the fastest way to flat out destroy the spring.

If your on a budget build, cut, weld fabricate what suits you.I could be wrong, but it sounds like you're offended when someone has a different opinion when it comes to drop coils.

No, I'm not offended in the least, you have many valid points I agree with.

There is also a variety of spring rates available believe it or not. Too soft a spring rate= lower ride height...too hard= higher ride height.You mentioned earlier that you prefer rear shock extenders too rather than using larger bore, shorter drop shocks. Once again, that's your opinion. I prefer using drop shocks...different strokes for different folks.

I'm not against drop coils anymore than I am against cutting coils, you stated earlier

"Cutting springs is usually a bad idea as they dont always sit evenly in the cups"

I believe this statement is partially true and partially false. Cutting coils is acceptable as long as it is done right and the right amount. The coils sit fine in the cup at a 1 round to 1 1/4 round cut to achieve a 2in to 2.5in spring drop, which is the desired spring drop 90% of the time. 1/2 round to 3/4 round for a 1in spring drop is a royal pain to install and I wouldn't recommend it, I would opt for a 1in drop coil or a 1ton coil spring with one round cut off in this case.

I don't use drop shocks on the rear because of the shock angle relative to suspension travel and the usual difficulty accessing the bottom mounting bolt because its so close to the leaf spring u-bolts and plate, not that the drop shock itself is bad.