Rear wheel toe on 90 suburban RWD

[Ricko1966]

Okay if you've adjust the tie rods to where you have toe out the cars going to be unstable,that's actually a race car trick to enter turns quicker. I'm busy but looked at your print. Left rear is -.2 right is +.2 your rear axle has shifted. If you payed for a frontbend alignment and not a 4 wheel alignment,then I'm with Firestone on this one. If you weren't concerned about the rear,they shouldn't be either and if you asked for an alignment and it didn't fix your problem.Than you are the one who mis diagnosed it,it's not that Firestone failed to fix it. Not trying to make you mad,and I honestly don't know everything that's transpired. I'm not trying to defend firestone,they suck,but I can't tell you how many times a customer or service has told me do this or that, and then ask me why isn't it fixed BECAUSE THAT WASNT THE PROBLEM! I've asked for diag. time to check things out before and been told just do the tune up or whatever.

 

[Radiohead]

Can I adjust caster?

You can change the depth of the shim packs to alter the geometry, but without an alignment machine, you can't determine the effect of your efforts. Sorry. You can only get so accurate eyeballing.

 

[Ricko1966]

Goid catch @Radiohead I was so concentrating on the rearend complaint and the no test driving complaint I didn't even look at the front numbers,just assumed they were right. Camber,Caster and toe are adjustable angles on your truck. I'd like to know why they weren't adjusted. And you can and I do set caster and camber at home,but you have to know what you are doing and have the right tools. I don't think it's a good idea for you.

 

[CalSgt]

The one in black and white is the most recent one.

Ummmm… these are the same alignment and same date. I thought you said it had been in twice.

All they did (at least on the sheet) is set the toe.

I know some shops will only make adjustments for their advertising price, if adjustment cams or other parts are needed they don’t even look at it unless you sign off on them replacing whatever is needed.

If thrust angle causes it to be crabbing down the road (dog track) as gritdog said that would end up in a slight turn of the wheel to keep all wheels pointed in the same direction. Not the same as a pull, a pull drags the vehicle one way or another requiring constant input on the steering wheels to keep it in the lane.

Too little caster causes “flighty” steering and the steering wheel won’t want to automatically center itself as quickly if at all. That wasn’t your chief complaint though.

I’m not too hip on camber effects because the vehicles I align myself typically don’t have a camber adjustment. (Straight axle 4x4’s)

There is always a possibility of radial pull, if you have any buddies with wheels and tires you can test drive it is worth a try.

 

[richardberg]

Sorry about that, here’s the sheet from the first time I went.

 

[richardberg]

Yeah it’s kind of self centering now but not as much as it should. Right turns are a lot faster and easier than left turns. I have to pull harder on the steering wheel to turn to the left. Before I did my own wacko alignment the car would veer off to the right like i almost missed that highway exit. It was not pleasant to drive the car having to hold on that tight to that wheel all the time.

 

[Grit dog]

Okay if you've adjust the tie rods to where you have toe out the cars going to be unstable,that's actually a race car trick to enter turns quicker. I'm busy but looked at your print. Left rear is -.2 right is +.2 your rear axle has shifted. If you payed for a frontbend alignment and not a 4 wheel alignment,then I'm with Firestone on this one. If you weren't concerned about the rear,they shouldn't be either and if you asked for an alignment and it didn't fix your problem.Than you are the one who mis diagnosed it,it's not that Firestone failed to fix it. Not trying to make you mad,and I honestly don't know everything that's transpired. I'm not trying to defend firestone,they suck,but I can't tell you how many times a customer or service has told me do this or that, and then ask me why isn't it fixed BECAUSE THAT WASNT THE PROBLEM! I've asked for diag. time to check things out before and been told just do the tune up or whatever.

Good point and @richardberg paid for an alignment not a bunch of new parts. (I think).
If the caster is good (doesn’t cause pull one direction anyway) and the toe does looks good then it’s something else.

What about the road itself? Does it pull right even on a road that is crowned to drain to the left?
Did this just occur or are you trying to improve something that has existed for a long time? Could it just be exaggerated by an old steering box and parts and never drove it on a freeway with a cross slope to the left.

Never said how “much” it pulls. How long/many miles have you driven this truck?
Throwing out suggestions.
And yes 0.2 deg rear axle shift is not an issue in any way shape or form likely.

 

[QBuff02]

check the leaf spring centering pins/bolts. My truck dog tracks to the right and thought I had a bent leaf spring hangar bracket, bent axle tube or something majorly out of whack but come to find out both leaf spring centering pins are broke and it has allowed the leaf springs and axle to shift under the truck due to this. I've had the centering bolts and new u bolts to put in since last summer but haven't been able to install them as house work took priority and the truck has been out in the in-laws shop since last summer. But that was the cause I discovered on mine. I had had the front end checked on it after rebuilding (forget the numbers) but it always wanted to pull to the right no matter what I tried and is a little squirrely (not scary but noticeable) when you hit big bumps at speed. Got looking closer after a buddy sent me this snap one day and I was like "that rear axle looks way off" and that's when I discovered the busted bolts and the axle shifted under the truck.

 

[TFerguson]

Just to toss this into the fray: I once had a Jeep Wrangler that had a light, but persistent pull to one side while driving. It became a severe pull when the brakes were applied. I naturally assumed one of the front calipers was sticking, so replaced both. The issue persisted. It ended up being one of the rear calipers - the one on the side being pulled to, of course. Yes, I know the Sub likely has drums in the rear, but I'm guessing a similar issue could occur on drums, same as discs. I could see where an issue with a grabby rear bearing or even something wonky in the diff might also be a culprit.

Sounds like a real pain - best of luck getting it fixed.

 

[Bextreme04]

sitting in the car I have 1.8 turns to full right and full left, so it seems steering wheel is centered.

That checks nothing. The wheel has physical stops to keep it from turning too far. The steering box will turn much farther than the wheel can. You need to actually do the procedure I told you.

Drive the vehicle into a spot as straight as possible. Then disconnect the pitman arm from the steering linkage. Then turn full left then count the number of times it takes to go full right. Then half that number of turns back to actual steering box center. Now go see if the pitman lines up with your steering linkage. I bet it doesn't.

 

[idahovette]

That rig needs MORE positive caster on the PASSENGER side....CASTER pushes...CAMBER pulls...and it looks like there is WAY too much camber on both sides. In my part of the country we set Camber at 1/4 degree positive or less and try for as much Caster as we can get, with a little MORE positive on the passenger side......this has worked for me for over 50 years. Also we aligned the front end to the thrust angle, which may make a difference, BUT the printout says they did NOT do you any favors!!!

 

[bucket]

That checks nothing. The wheel has physical stops to keep it from turning too far. The steering box will turn much farther than the wheel can.

Uhhh... 100% nope. It should come as no surprise that there are large variances from vehicle to vehicle built in the time frame, but many are limited by the steering box and not the travel stops in the steering linkage.

Besides, the steering box being "off center" doesn't cause a pull. If it is off just a little, it can cause an undetectable difference in steering ratio from side to side. If someone has it really screwed up and has it off a full rotation then it will cause a noticeable difference in ratio from side to side, along with a lack of steering angle in one direction. But that alone still won't cause a pull.

 

[richardberg]

Yeah, have now had 3 wheel alignments at Firestone done. I have replaced tie rod ends and idler arm. Still pulls as much to the right as when it started. Firestone says that they can only do so much because there is “excessive play” in the steering box. Actually there is not a lot of play in the steering box after I adjusted it myself by adjusting worm bearing.

 

[Ricko1966]

Quit throwing parts at it. Quit getting it aligned,find out what's really causing the pull. I'd bet you money it's not the alignment.

 

[Grit dog]

And if it hasn’t been mentioned before, DO NOT use Firestone for repair work.
It’s been a few years now, but every experience at Firestone shops over the last 35 years has resulted in a rip off or attempted rip off. (Sorry, maybe “up-charge” is the politically correct word).