no head/tail or inst. lights. but....

[dot4x4]

Allright, heres one for you guys. I had lights working as normal. Suddenly I now have no Headlight, tail lights or dash lights. BUT I have brake lights and emergency flashers.

I have replaced ALL fuses, new headlight switch... Still no luck. Any ideas guys ?

Oh and its an 81 Chevy stepside with an 84 305 and 700R transmission.

Further info is that my Starter now has died. Turned over once, heard a "clank" and now nothing. Not even a click when I turn the ignition key. Battery is new, properly installed and fully charged.

Any ideas as to where I can find them little damn gremlins.... I am ready...

 

[GTME94]

Sounds like a fusible link. They are on the firewall. There are quite a few threads here about them.

 

[dot4x4]

I will do a search on them. Thanks. This is my first "older" vehicle that is not computer controlled. Once I learn something and fix it, it makes sense. Until then..... I feel like a dolt sometimes lol.

 

[dot4x4]

Well I was able to take a few minutes before bed and look around the truck. I found one completely fried fusible link; But I could not find anymore. In fact I couldn't find the cab to engine block link at all. I will look into it more on Thursday, (its my only day off this week) as I work from 6 in the morning until 6 at night with a half hour drive one way. By the time I get home I want to spend my little time with the kids. (Plus we just moved and my tools are scattered between two houses and 50-60 boxes.)

I thought I would update this thread for anyone else looking at a similar problem. It is looking like my electrical problems are being caused by blown or missing fusible links and ground straps.

 

[MrMarty51]

I guess the first hint was, " Now the battery is properly installed. "
If the battery had been improperly installed, by hooking the pos. + cable to the neg. - post and the neg. - post to the pos. + post, in an instant, the fusible links will be fried, or, in this case, apparently only one took the jolt as You still have brake lamps and flashers.
You will need to solder in a new piece of a fusible link.
Not a tough job but, it will require a soldering gun and some solder.
A fusible link kit, from a parts house, will have the terminal ring with it.
I think that they also supply a crimp butt connector but, I will usually avoid those things like they had the plague, have had too many problems with other peoples repairs when they used those things.
Welcome to the forum Dot.

 

[dot4x4]

update, sorry it was so long in coming. Between work, moving into a new house and getting a wrist injury I haven't spent much time on the truck.


So turns out the culprit was a fusible link that fried coming off of the starter. I now have all lights, head, instriment and tail. BUT the truck still won't turn over. I have limited mobility in my hands and wrist so its difficult to get to the starter wiring for me. I think I wired the starter wrong. I will know more by tomorrow night.

Thanks for all the replies. MRMARTY51... I meant that the battery was new and installed properly. I found the negative cable was loose. The battery was never installed "backwards" to my knowlege.

 

[chengny]

Fusible links are not polarity dependent anyway, they could care less in which direction the electrons are flowing.

Their only concern is with the quantity of electrons that are flowing through the circuit. The purpose of a fuse (or a fusible link or circuit breaker) is to burn up and thereby open the circuit - before the current carrying capacity of the wiring is exceeded.

A fusible link is actually just a section of everyday copper wire that is inserted into the supply side of the circuit. The key is that the copper is a minimum of 4 AWG sizes smaller than the wiring it is designed to protect. It will fail way before any of the downstream wiring can get hot enough to melt the insulation.

Now diodes on the other hand...they will pop if exposed to the wrong polarity for even a millisecond. If you ever somehow manage to get your cables on the wrong battery posts you can can just go right ahead and pull the alternator. There are 3 diodes in the voltage regulator and they will be toast.

And don't ask me how people even are able to hook up a battery backwards. It must take some serious work just to modify the cable clamps so they are able to fit on the wrong posts. My kids have done this twice in recent memory. Matter of fact, one time my youngest even had to undo the wiring clips and re-route the cables - in order to get them to reach the wrong posts. That's dedication!


Anyway - on the nonstart issue:

The starter (solenoid) is the first stop for all the power that comes out of the battery and the wire that carries the power from the battery positive to the "B" terminal on the solenoid is unfused. A portion of that power just skips right on past the starter/solenoid but the majority of it is used to crank the 305 over.

So the big black cable from the battery positive goes straight to the "B" terminal on the solenoid. There are two medium sized red wires that are piggybacked on to that black cable (at the "B" terminal). Once those red wires have battery power from their contact with the black cable, they head off in different directions.

One goes to the cab (via the firewall junction block/fusible link route) from there it feeds some of the fuse block circuits and also the ignition switch. The other splits off to the alternator and also feeds the non-fused components (headlights, horn, etc).

But remember all these red wires and their branch circuits are protected by the fusible links located right after the starter.

As described above, one of those red wires goes directly to the ignition switch after passing through the FW. It is here that the control signal for the starter is generated.

When the key is in the START position, a set of contacts closes and power is supplied to a yellow wire which leads to the neutral safety switch/NSS (1984 and down - after that you are prevented from starting the engine in D,R,2 or 1 by a mechanical interlock in the steering column) or a clutch safety switch/CSS if you have a manual transmission.

After the power carried on the yellow wire passes through (whichever switch you have), the color of the wire changes to purple.

That purple wire goes through the FW and heads straight down to the starter/solenoid where it is fastened to the "S" terminal.

The power supplied by the purple wire pulls the solenoid plunger in and - through linkage - the bendix engages the ring gear. Another set of contacts within the solenoid makes and supplies the main starter motor with full battery power.

The engine cranks up, spark is produced (power is also being supplied by the ignition switch to the distributor coil) and if fuel and compression are present - the motor fires and runs on it's own.

So the starter has 4 wires connected to it.

A big black from the battery and two reds that supply the rest of the vehicle - all three of these go on the "B" terminal

The little purple wire goes on the "S" terminal.

If there are any other terminals (like an "R") you can ignore them - they have no function on trucks equipped with an HEI ignition system.

 

[dot4x4]

WOW.... Thanks Chengny for your excellent response. Rep points will be added to you for sure. The "Purple" wire was very loose, in fact I was able to turn the bolt maybe two times by hand and it fell out. The wire itself looks "cooked" with exposed wire showing for about three inches. My plan is to splice in some good wire in there and hope that is my last issue.

Like I said, loose wires led to poor starting, led to poor grounding and fusible links fried. All in all it was a headache as I am just learning on this Chevy. I was a passable mechanic on imports and Ford computer stuff. Carbs and fusible links are new to me and I went at the fix wrong. Looking back it should have been obvious.... But thats why they say hindsight is 20/20.

Thanks again for the excellent reply.

 

[chengny]

My plan is to splice in some good wire in there and hope that is my last issue.

If I might make a suggestion; I'm gonna anyway - rather than splicing an extension onto the end of the purple wire while lying under the truck and trying to get your hands up in the area of the solenoid:

1. First and foremost - however you decide to make this repair, TRY NOT to use solderless/crimped connectors to butt splice sections of wire. They have a miserable track record when faced with engine compartment conditions. Don't get me wrong, nothing horrible is going to happen if you do - but you will be doing the job again sooner than later.

And if you do have to add on a ring terminal, use connectors and a crimping tool made by a good quality company like Thomas & Betts. Also, buy the uninsulated type - and in addition to lightly crimping the terminal on, solder it as well.

Butt splices should be made up with short solder joints and insulated with heat shrink tubing. Avoid crimped butt splice connectors at all costs.

2. Consider running a length of new wire from the solenoid all the way up to the firewall penetration and make your splice in that area. You'll get a much better result. Add the ring terminal to the end of the wire while working at the bench. Then all you have to do is fish the new run of wire down through the "L" shaped conduit and connect it to the "S" terminal.

3. If you don't want to that, at least pull the purple wire up out of the conduit, add your ring terminal to the end and then fish it back down - there is plenty of slack. Enough so you won't even need to add any wire just a new terminal.

 

[dot4x4]

OK... sorry it took me so long to update this. I had surgery a year ago on my dominate wrist/hand and I had a flair up so I wasn't able to test the wiring until a friend stopped by yesterday.

Also I figure I am repeating myself on this but I thought a summary was better than just an, "it works".

SO..... It starts, runs and I have all lights, inside and out. I believe that the previous owner did not tighten the wires on the starter. I have always had problems with a slow/loud "clank" starter on this truck. This led to an extra strain on the electircal system, which popped ALL of my fusible links at the starter. The "Purple" wire was literally hanging on the "S" post with basically no nut on it. The "Purple" wire had about 4" of burned insulation on it. I had my friend splice (Sorry Chengy, all I had was crimp connectors but I do have a Klein crimp tool) a new section, about 14" long onto the wire and the truck turned over quicker and faster than ever before. Once I am bored and my wrist is functioning again; I will invest in solder iron and replace the wire correctly.

Thanks for all the help on this one and for the "expert tips" and excellent replies. I was even able to use knowledge gained from this thread to help someone else fix their problems too.

 

[89Suburban]

Thanks for the update.

 

[dot4x4]

Been daily driving the truck for the last 4 days. So far no problems but I did end up replacing the starter. The wiring has held up but the starter had to be "tapped" several times to get it to work. Since the change there has been no problems.

Thanks to the timing chain exploding in my old daily driver the F-me truck is now my daily driver. We will see how things hold up. Any one need parts from a 1996 Suzuki Sidekick Sport 4wd ? Everything is good but the internal engine parts LOL.

 

[ScottyB]

Been daily driving the truck for the last 4 days. So far no problems but I did end up replacing the starter. The wiring has held up but the starter had to be "tapped" several times to get it to work. Since the change there has been no problems.

Thanks to the timing chain exploding in my old daily driver the F-me truck is now my daily driver. We will see how things hold up. Any one need parts from a 1996 Suzuki Sidekick Sport 4wd ? Everything is good but the internal engine parts LOL.

I didn't think the Sidekick had an interference style engine. Why is it toast?

 

[dot4x4]

I'm assuming it is. In addition to the chain breaking it has oil all over the front. It may be saveable but I need to tear into it and I would rather put that energy and funds into the truck.

 

[dot4x4]

Just my luck... the 1.8 in it IS an interference motor. It's toast.....