new to the engine building community

[HotRodPC]

If he gets the block decked, then he will have to get the heads and intake ground down to fit right. I wouldnt deck it unless its warped.

That all depends on how much they take off. They usually don't have to take enough off to make a big difference. And usually going from a thin metal OE gasket to a thicker comp gasket, the difference is made up anyway, and compensated.

Doh, missed a post. Now I see Hirsh responded already.

 

[HotRodPC]

What kind of budget first of all. Last time I had a block prepped, bake, bore, line hone, cam bearings, it cost me $600. Then all the internals. Spent close to 3k for something that i built.

For that kind of money i would rather buy a warrantied crate long or short block from BluePrint. Or update to aleast a Gen3 LSx. Get a boneyard 6.0 for under a $1k and get 345 HP stock. Go fuel injection or get a MSD carb kit for an LS1 and bolt it on.

Just my opinion, not trying to get into a debate.

Wow, I know machine work has gone up, but $600??? Seems I remember when you could get a block done for $85. HotTank/Magnaflux, Bore, Cam Bearings and Freeze Plugs installed.

Line Honing isn't cheap though and Line Bore is even more expensive. Normally, I don't have that done. If my plastiguage comes out right on all mains on both sides of the bearings, block and main caps sides, I run with it. If it's out, then I look for another block. Blocks are to cheap vs the cost of Line Bore, and Line honing doesn't take much off, but still I'd rather have my bearings fit right, and a line hone, I don't think they cut your main caps. Just saying, I'd avoid that expense and issues that could potentially pop up.

What do you mean by baked? For cleaning the block or having it stress relieved?

 

[tanz45]

I meant hot tanked. Place i used was a lil high maybe, but they are the only one around and they do a **** ton of motors from local dirt track to heavy machines. And the turn around time is very good.

I have no problem building my own. But if it fails because i over looked something then I am out everything. Thats when nice tools become flying projectiles.

 

[Driver4r]

Nope , most of the time you will not take off enough to have any problem's , (have done two decked block's so far) and if you dont square deck the block a quench motor is pretty much out.

My dad has done ALOT more than 2 engines. and has always had to fix the angle cause the deck changed that much.

It all depends on the deck height. But MOST of the time you will have to redo the mating surfaces.

And it also depends on how presise he wants the surfaces to be. If you get them fixed, it will be more of a precision fit.

 

[HotRodPC]

My dad has done ALOT more than 2 engines. and has always had to fix the angle cause the deck changed that much.

It all depends on the deck height. But MOST of the time you will have to redo the mating surfaces.

And it also depends on how presise he wants the surfaces to be. If you get them fixed, it will be more of a precision fit.

What motors is he building? I've done butt loads of SBC's and rarely had blocks decked. HiPo builds got decked, and if they were severely overheated and failed a straight edge test they got decked, but it wasn't very common. I tried to NOT deck a block unless it was necessary since it wipe outs the #'s on the block deck passenger side.

 

[Driver4r]

What motors is he building? I've done butt loads of SBC's and rarely had blocks decked. HiPo builds got decked, and if they were severely overheated and failed a straight edge test they got decked, but it wasn't very common. I tried to NOT deck a block unless it was necessary since it wipe outs the #'s on the block deck passenger side.

He has built engines anywhere from 266 Small blocks all the way to 706 Big Blocks.
Not all got decked. But he decked more than 2. And he built some pretty High Output engines.
He also helped build a couple of Doug Wolfgang's(Sprint car) Engines that won national titles.

 

[HotRodPC]

He has built engines anywhere from 266 Small blocks all the way to 706 Big Blocks.
Not all got decked. But he decked more than 2. And he built some pretty High Output engines.
He also helped build a couple of Doug Wolfgang's(Sprint car) Engines that won national titles.

That's a different story, I thought I was seeing he ALWAYS had to fix the angles.... A block needing decked isn't all that common for anything streetable unless it's been severely overheated and warped, unless there is purpose like stated, a quench motor. tolerance matters that much and combustion chamber size matters.

 

[hirschdalechevy]

Well , all I can say is if you want a pump gas (Quench) motor for the street , (not race) , that will get with the program , 98% of the time there will be decking involved or even if you want a motor built to top quality standards you will have to deck.You ever wonder why some stock 350's , say in a 1970 camaro , you bought one this week and your buddy bought the exact same one a month later and he beats you in a drag race , stock for stock? Maybe thats because most smallblocks from the factory are out of square from one end to the other by as much as .004 to .012 from one end to the other.Your buddies camaro that beat you had a better cast block and tighter quench that day (at the factory) than your's.Not to mention your motor is 10 to 1 compression in the number 1 hole and 9.8 to 1 in the number 8 hole. Your buddies camaro that beat you has close to 10 to 1 in every hole.Back to why you should square deck blocks , (no two are the same). It's all about volumetric efficiency = more power , better milage , etc.. if you are doing machine work anyway why not do it right.

As far as the intake goes if you think about it in stock older 350's the piston's are .025 down in the block and stock head gasket's are .016 thick = .041 total.I you want a square decked quench motor with the piston at 0 deck you run a .041 felpro head gasket and you are back to the same place for the intake , no issue's.

As far as piston's go you need to go with the d shaped dish to match the chamber of the head ,(closed chamber only) , (any cc dish you want for desired compression) , and not a domed piston with a open chamber head.Why , back to volumetric efficiency , the flame has more trouble getting around a dome than it does in a dish that matches the head chamber.

I am rambling on , sorry for the long post.

Quench motor is the only way to go on the street , IMO.
Lot's of guy's buy high dollar part's and some machine shop throws together a motor for them and they are happy but they could be a lot happier.

 

[hirschdalechevy]

My dad has done ALOT more than 2 engines. and has always had to fix the angle cause the deck changed that much.

It all depends on the deck height. But MOST of the time you will have to redo the mating surfaces.

And it also depends on how presise he wants the surfaces to be. If you get them fixed, it will be more of a precision fit.

I have as well but just two square decked quench motor's and did not have to do anything with the intake , I guess it just depends on what your set up is.

 

[HotRodPC]

Well , all I can say is if you want a pump gas (Quench) motor for the street , (not race) , that will get with the program , 98% of the time there will be decking involved or even if you want a motor built to top quality standards you will have to deck.You ever wonder why some stock 350's , say in a 1970 camaro , you bought one this week and your buddy bought the exact same one a month later and he beats you in a drag race , stock for stock? Maybe thats because most smallblocks from the factory are out of square from one end to the other by as much as .004 to .012 from one end to the other.Your buddies camaro that beat you had a better cast block and tighter quench that day (at the factory) than your's.Not to mention your motor is 10 to 1 compression in the number 1 hole and 9.8 to 1 in the number 8 hole. Your buddies camaro that beat you has close to 10 to 1 in every hole.Back to why you should square deck blocks , (no two are the same). It's all about volumetric efficiency = more power , better milage , etc.. if you are doing machine work anyway why not do it right.

As far as the intake goes if you think about it in stock older 350's the piston's are .025 down in the block and stock head gasket's are .016 thick = .041 total.I you want a square decked quench motor with the piston at 0 deck you run a .041 felpro head gasket and you are back to the same place for the intake , no issue's.

As far as piston's go you need to go with the d shaped dish to match the chamber of the head ,(closed chamber only) , (any cc dish you want for desired compression) , and not a domed piston with a open chamber head.Why , back to volumetric efficiency , the flame has more trouble getting around a dome than it does in a dish that matches the head chamber.

I am rambling on , sorry for the long post.

Quench motor is the only way to go on the street , IMO.
Lot's of guy's buy high dollar part's and some machine shop throws together a motor for them and they are happy but they could be a lot happier.

I believe in such thing as a street/strip motor too. I just point that out when you say quench street motor (not race). I'd be more specific in, Not full race or not streetable. You can still have your cake and eat it too. You will suffer some mpg, and will have to do maintenance more often but it can be done.

And getting into those fine details of decking the block for quench and balance, then you also need to CC your heads and at least check your pistons to check dish or dome, which are usually good to go, unless some idiot fly cut the pistons and didn't do them right.

 

[hirschdalechevy]

I believe in such thing as a street/strip motor too. I just point that out when you say quench street motor (not race). I'd be more specific in, Not full race or not streetable. You can still have your cake and eat it too. You will suffer some mpg, and will have to do maintenance more often but it can be done.

And getting into those fine details of decking the block for quench and balance, then you also need to CC your heads and at least check your pistons to check dish or dome, which are usually good to go, unless some idiot fly cut the pistons and didn't do them right.

Yea , I just did'nt want to get in to deep with everything unless somebody asked.
Hawkattack2007 asked if you could get to 400 to 500hp with a 383 and I was giving my two cents about getting close to that on pump gas in a daily driver but he wont get close to that if he runs out to a machine shop that has done 5,000 motor's claiming to be 400 hp and they are not even close.

I will shut up now.

 

[wildcatjason]

What motors is he building? I've done butt loads of SBC's and rarely had blocks decked. HiPo builds got decked, and if they were severely overheated and failed a straight edge test they got decked, but it wasn't very common. I tried to NOT deck a block unless it was necessary since it wipe outs the #'s on the block deck passenger side.

I've never had to have a block decked.

 

[HotRodPC]

Yea , I just did'nt want to get in to deep with everything unless somebody asked.
Hawkattack2007 asked if you could get to 400 to 500hp with a 383 and I was giving my two cents about getting close to that on pump gas in a daily driver but he wont get close to that if he runs out to a machine shop that has done 5,000 motor's claiming to be 400 hp and they are not even close.

I will shut up now.

I get your point, just making sure OP did too and not misunderstand. You're putting emphasis on having matched cylinders as far as combustion chamber size being uniform, and tolerances being specific and tight to accomplish what he wants to do, and as you point out, to get to where he'd want to be, and run pump gas, he'd have to be very tight.

 

[HotRodPC]

I've never had to have a block decked.

Usually not needed for street or stret/strip motor unless it's been overheated and warped the decks, or you expecting alot out of a motor. It's not as critical if your using composition head gaskets that make deck imperfections forgiveable to a certain degree, but if you're running thin metal thim shim head gaskets you damn sure better have it decked but have as little as possible taken off on both the deck and the heads. That is usally done on high compression or high pressure full race motors running a biggo giggly juice unit or lots of Turbo boost.

 

[89Suburban]