New Hinge Alignment with NO Reference Marks

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Russtypickle

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Hi All, I've finally started the painting on my K5 project. The inside is painted but I replaced the doors hinges (holes were oval) with new ones. I removed the hinges from the pillar and painted the pillar and the new hinges. I'm now fitting the doors and trying to get some reference marks so that I can mount the door and hinges. However, as soon as I take the front fender off to mount the door and hinges, I'm going to lose my references so it's likely going to mean taking things on and off 100 times to get it right. Does anyone have any advice on getting this right? Is putting the weather stripping on helpful, etc?

Any and all help, suggestions, tutorials :) would be appreciated. I'd like to get a decent game plan before starting.
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CalSgt

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Honestly Sir…

It’s a trial and error thing to fit doors. Had you asked before I would have recommended fitting the doors first before painting the jambs and leaving them on from that moment forward.

I had mine on and off 20+ times to get them fit before starting bodywork, I didn’t dare take them off once adjusted.

Some shops that paint with doors removed get them fit first then drill small holes in the hinges/doors/body then use the hole and a rod to get them almost perfect during reassembly
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Russtypickle

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Thanks CalSgt, ya, I knew before I took them off and painted them that it was going to be a grind re-aligning them, I just didn't want to paint it with the hinges on and end up with the crack between the hinge and the body. I love the hole idea, I should have posted sooner :) How's your project coming along, have you finished the painting stage?
 

PrairieDrifter

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You need the seals to do the alignment. Also pull the striker off the door jamb. You're gonna be taking it off and on a bunch. An engine hoist can be handy.
 

legopnuematic

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My advice is to remove the fenders, or at minimum remove the bolts/loosen core support and pull as far forward as possible.

Then with hinges on the a pillars, and striker installed, slot door into aperture, install bolts from hinge to door. With the door panel removed you can get a torx or allen (whatever the striker might be) you can loosen and adjust the striker with the door latched. Adjust hinges as needed to flush things up and set your gaps at rear of door as the quarter is a fixed datum. Get it where you want it and tighten everything up, then align fenders to doors.

You can install and adjust the door with the fender on but it makes it a lot more work in my opinion.
 

Russtypickle

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Thanks, I am planning on taking the fenders off for sure. Anyone have a trick for aligning the hinges so they don't bind against each other? I assume there will be a little messing around just to get that right.
 

Russtypickle

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I should have mentioned too, the doors are stripped (no glass or hardware) and really light. I'm going to start by installing the weather stripping around the jamb in the morning and shimming the sill so the door sits at the correct height (I'll just tape the top - did it today and works well), Once that's done I'll remove the fender and fit the hinge (round one of many). If anyone has suggestions, I'm all ears.
 

CalSgt

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Thanks CalSgt, ya, I knew before I took them off and painted them that it was going to be a grind re-aligning them, I just didn't want to paint it with the hinges on and end up with the crack between the hinge and the body. I love the hole idea, I should have posted sooner :) How's your project coming along, have you finished the painting stage?
Mine is almost done, I need a few bits and pieces then it’s a driver.

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bucket

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Install the weatherstripping, but leave the striker out. Install the hinges to the cab and door, but keep all bolts a little loose. With a helper (very important with this method), carefully close the door and have your helper keep the door snuggly closed and in a position with reasonable gaps, while you snug up all the hinge bolts. It's often better to tighten the door/hinge bolts first, then the cab/hinge bolts. At that point, you can make adjustments, as needed. Once the door is adjusted, Install the latch and striker.

No matter if the fenders are there or not, the doors have to be fitted to the cab. When the front clip is installed, you may have to adjust the front of the doors in or out, but that is easy to do with the fenders installed.
 

Snoots

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Long read but, worth it.

Preparing the door

Install the door hinges on the door and make sure that the lower hinge is in the closed position; this will give you a straight shot at it on installation.

Install the door latch; having the door latch installed will help with aligning the door, especially if you’ve taken on the job alone and then, install the door jamb sticker plate.


Prepare the door jambs and gap gauges

Before I mount the door I prep the rear door jambs and rocker panel with my panel gap gauge made out of pop-sickle sticks (you can use paint sticks), this will set the initial gap as well as help protect the jambs and rocker from an impact with the door edges.


Mounting and Aligning the Door

Once the door is mounted and the striker plate is adjusted so the rear of the door is aligned pretty well I move to fine tuning the door alignment.


Door Hinges 101

The body side of the hinges allow adjustments to be made: up, down and front to back.

The door side if the hinge allows adjustments to be made: up, down, inboard and outboard.


Each adjustment should be made to one hinge side at a time, tighten the bolts and then move to the next adjustment.


Problem and Solution

P: The gap between the top rear of the door and the quarter panel is too close; you need to widen the gap.

S: Make the adjustment at the top body side hinge; nudge it forward until you achieve the appropriate gap.



P: The bottom rear of the door is sticking out and is not flush with the body.

S: Make the adjustment at the top door side hinge; pull the top front of the door outward and you will see the lower rear of the door drift inward.


Top rear in or out = lower door side hinge

Bottom rear in or out = upper door side hinge

Setting gap and angle = body side hinges, up down, forward or back


Alignment of Specific Parts

We’re only going to focus on a few parts in this section because there are only a few panels that are considered bolt-on, while the rest are structural or welded-on parts. We’re going to look at the hood, deck lid, fender and door. We won’t concern ourselves with the bumper assemblies, grilles, headlamps or other miscellaneous parts.

Door
The door can be difficult, so pay attention! Doors have always been a challenge and require more analytical thinking than other parts. Today’s automatic door glass drop-downs, airbags, electronic latches and locks don’t make them any easier, either. The principal still remains the same, though: the door or doors must be aligned to the closest welded-on parts first (quarters and rockers) before aligning to the bolted-on parts (fenders and other doors).

Think about it! If you’re replacing both same side doors on a four-door hard top, you’ll install and fit the rear door first because the rear door is bound by the quarter panel/dogleg and the rocker panel. Both of these parts are welded on and provide no adjustment, so you’ll fit the rear door to the quarter/rocker opening and then fit the front door to the rear door and adjust the fender to the front door if necessary. That’s the baseline principal, and usually experienced technicians, given all the weight in the doors, like to load their doors before final paint to assure themselves that everything fits properly – which means the latches are hitting the strikers in the middle and the glass is contacting the weather-stripping without slamming or spring-back and popping. The cheapest place to address issues is in front of the paint booth doors.

Can you run out of adjustments when fitting a door? Sure. What do you do then, bend something? You have to, because something bent it out of alignment to begin with. How you do it will determine how much damage you do or don’t do in the process.

If your door is sagging at the rear and dragging on the striker, verify that the hinges aren’t worn out before bending anything. Open the door and lift on the rear of it. If there’s noticeable movement vertically, you may need bushings, hinge pins or new hinges. If new hinges aren’t available, there may be rebuild kits available from the aftermarket.

If the hinges are good but the door won’t take an alignment with the available adjustments … something has to give. In this case, the door is dragging on the striker, so it needs to come up at the back. Loosen the top hinge on the body side slightly. You don’t want to loosen the hinge bolts more than just a half turn on the upper A-pillar. With a jack, a block and some towels, with the door half open, carefully lift the back of the door with a floor jack. Lift the back of the door with pressure on the door frame, not the door edge/flange. Use caution. With the pressure on, use a bar and a 3-lb. hammer and strike the top hinge firmly and squarely forward to slip the hinge.

Repeat the process of striking the upper hinge with the bar and hammer. Release the jack and check the latch-to-striker alignment. There should be no dragging either on the top or bottom of the latch opening. If it closes properly, you’re done after tightening your bolts.

If the door still sags and you’ve determined adjustment in both hinges is maxed out…it’s time to take your actions up a notch. There are several ways to do this, but I’ll discuss two of the least destructive.
The device that looks like a couple of sockets on the opposing ends of a piece of wire is used between the hinge halves and with the door closed on it to bend or “spring” a door into alignment laterally. Go easy! A little bit makes a big difference, a lot is too much and it’s harder to go back. Check the latch-to-striker position now. It’s good, great! Go to the bank and pick up your money.

Another way to do this involves other devices where the door latch closes over the tool and the jamb is used as a fulcrum to lever the door up or down as needed. Use caution and watch the paint where the fender and door intersect at the top.
 

Russtypickle

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Thanks for the help guys, I fitted the door yesterday. Things went way better than I thought they would although to CalSgt's point, ya, at least 20 times... Anyway, it likely would have been a lot less but I ended up having to grind the corner of the lower hinge where it meets the door. The door was proud of the rocker and fender and nothing I did changed it until I realized that the hinge plate was tight to the exterior side of the door. I ground more than I needed to off the area next to the hinge pin (very thin) but once I figured out where the issue was it was easy to align the bottom. I'm not sure if it's because the door was so loose before (actually hit the jamb - metal to metal) that I couldn't see it but I've adjusted it as close to the striker plate jamb as I can stomach (thanks Snoots) but the door now just barly clears the fender. I'm going to do the passenger door today and see what it looks like. I have a new hood so It's likely best I fit that now t
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oo so I may have to just slide the entire front clip forward and eighth or so. Anyone have suggestions/cautions about doing that or even "best practices"?

Thanks again for all your help, here's a couple photos. Hopefully someone will see the hinge plate issue and save themselves some time. (If you are reading this and are installing complete aftermarket hinges, be carful to only grind the portion of the hinge that meets the door at first and try fitting it, I think that would have been enough for mine)
 

legopnuematic

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This is for a 70s truck, if you look in an 80s service manual (pdfs available on the forum here) it should have it with any changes made for the restyled front.

Give you an idea on what dimensions and tolerances should be for gaps:
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That’s why I advocate for removing or at minimum pulling the front clip forward, the B pillar is your fixed datum, can’t change that without major surgery, set your door to b pillar, then work forward.

The other reason is if the fender is too far back, or door too far forward, the door can be open and when shut it will get stuck into the fender and won’t re open. Of course the bolts you need to get to are behind the door that can’t be opened. DAMHIK.
 

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