Manual Swap

[Sherrow74]

I have a '74 K10 with a Turbo 350 and np203 transfer case. The Turbo 350 don't seem like its got much life left in it so Ive been tossing around the idea of a manual swap. So i was wondering if I should try to find an original SM465 (and what a good price for one is) or upgrade to something else? Also, I was wondering if i had to find a 4X4 specific trans or could i find a 2wd one and swap tailshafts? Thanks

 

[marks86]

nv4500 FTW

 

[Sherrow74]

Can i use my np203 with an nv4500

 

[marks86]

not without an adaptor, Personally I would throw that heavy np203 in the garbage

a np208/np241 will bolt right up

 

[firebane]

Problem is nv4500 is the same as the sm465 aside from being hydraulic.

There were variation of the nv4500 but the most commonly found is the 3 speed with a granny 1st.

 

[marks86]

Problem is nv4500 is the same as the sm465 aside from being hydraulic.

There were variation of the nv4500 but the most commonly found is the 3 speed with a granny 1st.

?????

all nv4500 have 5forward gears?

and they are completely different from a sm465

 

[firebane]

?????

all nv4500 have 5forward gears?

and they are completely different from a sm465

I had a 94 Chevy with a NV4500 and the gear shifter showed L,1,2,3,4,R

So technically yes 5 forward gears but you would never use L to start driving unless pulling a trailer or something heavy.

So I refer to it as a 4 speed with a granny low.

Where the SM465 is a 3 speed with a granny low.

And you will have a ton more fab work with the nv4500 vs the sm465 as well.

 

[marks86]

Problem is nv4500 is the same as the sm465 aside from being hydraulic.

There were variation of the nv4500 but the most commonly found is the 3 speed with a granny 1st.

I am just confused where you say " but the most commonly found is the 3 speed with a granny 1st"

 

[Greybeard]

IIRC the NV 4500 has a lower first gear than the SM465? Don't quote me on that. I swapped a 465 into my shorty a while ago but it was 74/75 vintage truck. It did not have any provisions for a manual linkage on the frame. It turned into project because of that but otherwise only requires different drive shafts (in some cases), the addition of a pedal, I found that it wasn't to hard to remove the steering column (because I switched to a manual steering column also) so I replaced the entire pedal bracket while I was at it. The problem that I ran into under the truck was due to having a 1" body lift because the truck cab was originally a two wheel drive cab with a low hump and would not fit over the 205 T-case I swapped in at the same time. It will in the future if I ever get around to finally completing the danged thing, with an old school lift and a 1" dropped t-case I'll be able to remove the body lift finally (or when I get around to fixing the rusted out floor pans I'll build a high hump center too).

I had to do some minor fabricating to extend the clutch linkage, simple backyard enineering...I took a 3/16"x1"x 1-1/4" long angle and heated it right at the inside corner bent it over and viola! I had the correct offset for my needs and then just drilled the holes where they worked. Could also just weld two chunks together too but I'm more a metal bender not a metal welder. I had to salvage the frame bracket I don't remember if I built it or salvaged it actually) and bolted it on and rebuilt the pivot there too.

The one big mistake I made was to go with the stock flywheel. My engine is capable of well over 7 grand so the stock flywheel is not a great or even good idea, my brother had one explode on him and ruin our 69 Nova straight racer, came within a inch of his foot but overall just dirtied his shorts. Keep the engine under 5500 and no problem.

Anyway, probably more info than you asked for. I like the SM 465 because it's the only tranny I've ever used off road.

 

[Greybeard]

I have a '74 K10 with a Turbo 350 and np203 transfer case. The Turbo 350 don't seem like its got much life left in it so Ive been tossing around the idea of a manual swap. So i was wondering if I should try to find an original SM465 (and what a good price for one is) or upgrade to something else? Also, I was wondering if i had to find a 4X4 specific trans or could i find a 2wd one and swap tailshafts? Thanks

Hey Cole,

You don't need to find a 4x4 specific tranny but it would help make life less expensive. The one I swapped into my Chevy was from a van. I didn't swap the output shaft myself so I can't say how easy it was. From the instructions I've read on doing it though it looks easy enough. If you find one that is already attached to a transfer case that would be the best way to go. Otherwise, adapters and couplers are easy to source. I would recommend buying a new input shaft for the t-case too however. There is no point in having a new output shaft, a new coupler, and a worn out input shaft. But that depends on how much money is allowed for the swap and whether you are comfortable with doing the upgrades or need to have someone else do them for you.

I guess it goes without saying that you need to watch the style of front output yoke that is on the t-case too. Not a really big deal just more money if it needs to be changed. But there is a chance your existing drive shaft won't be the right length anyway, but there are charts available that can give you an idea on that before you decide.

 

[Greybeard]

I had a 94 Chevy with a NV4500 and the gear shifter showed L,1,2,3,4,R

So technically yes 5 forward gears but you would never use L to start driving unless pulling a trailer or something heavy.

So I refer to it as a 4 speed with a granny low.

Where the SM465 is a 3 speed with a granny low.

And you will have a ton more fab work with the nv4500 vs the sm465 as well.

Isn't the nv4500 an overdrive tranny? Which would make it a 3 speed after all, despite having five forward gears. The most often used gears would likely be 1,2, and 3 anyway, unless the truck sees a lot of highway miles. Not putting the tranny down mind you, I would love to have one but I heard (no personal experience) that the swap is not straight across because the NV is a metric tranny. Trying to couple a metric tranny to an early block has some 'difficulties'. Otherwise, it's very doable and makes a great combo as long as the doer goes into it with eyes open and has done the required homework.

 

[firebane]

Isn't the nv4500 an overdrive tranny? Which would make it a 3 speed after all, despite having five forward gears. The most often used gears would likely be 1,2, and 3 anyway, unless the truck sees a lot of highway miles. Not putting the tranny down mind you, I would love to have one but I heard (no personal experience) that the swap is not straight across because the NV is a metric tranny. Trying to couple a metric tranny to an early block has some 'difficulties'. Otherwise, it's very doable and makes a great combo as long as the doer goes into it with eyes open and has done the required homework.

You know its interesting because so many people say the NV4500 has a overdrive gear and I not once remember having overdrive in my truck when I had mine.

 

[Greybeard]

You know its interesting because so many people say the NV4500 has a overdrive gear and I not once remember having overdrive in my truck when I had mine.

I looked it up, the 4500 has overdrive. Plus the low gear is not as low as the sm465's.

The 4500 had two ratios/overdrive/reverse boxes available- the Dodge and 95+ GM's - 5.61L/0.075OD/5.61R w/ 3.04/1.67/1.00 for 2, 3, and 4 respectively

and

The one from the '94 and earlier GM's used 6.34L/0.073od/6.34R w/ 3.44, 1.71, and 1.00 for 2, 3, and 4 respectively.


The SM 465 had
First Gear - 6.55:1
Second Gear - 3.58:1
Third Gear - 1.70:1
Fourth Gear - 1.00:1
Reverse - 6.09:1

The 465 will work a bit better in low with taller gears in the axles. Years ago I ran 4.10/4.11 with 39" MT's with the sm465/205 combo (in another truck) with no issues whatsoever. It would do 125 miles an hour on the highway if necessary and would crawl with the best of them. I got 10 mpg no matter what I was doing (high horsepower back then meant high fuel consumption).

I wouldn't hesitate to put the early GM style 4500 into my current truck if I wanted to spend the money on the adapters ([URL="http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/sm465.htm"]http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/sm465.htm[/URL]) for the engine side and the 205 side. But I think it was a lot easier to mate the two cases and the engine together that were already designed to do so. That's just me though. Of course Novak is all about Jeeps but the info is still good on the boxes themselves.

 

[bucket]

You know its interesting because so many people say the NV4500 has a overdrive gear and I not once remember having overdrive in my truck when I had mine.

It has an overdrive gear.

And the SM465 got a hydraulic clutch starting in '85.

 

[Sam]

Hey I have a 1973 Chevy k-10, im currently upgrading my tranny from a old 3 speed to a tko600 6 speed. If you want the original one you could buy my old transmission (3speed manual for 4wd, but it needs rebuilding. Otherwise id buy a tko 600.