Is this cab worth trying to save?!

[chengny]

Not to jump this thread but I thought some might find this interesting. Below is a cab that I just brought to the body shop to be painted GM black #19. It is essentially an NOS cab that I found in Rhode Island.

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It was the cab part of a brand new C & C that was headed to the fabricator for conversion to a catering truck (AKA a "roach coach"). This was in 1987.

Anyway as the story goes; it was headed to the shop for conversion, and on the way it was involved in an accident. Bad enough that the frame was bent. It was declared a total loss. The old guy I got the cab from bought the "wreck" from the insurance company. He removed the cab and scrapped the frame. For whatever reason, he kept it in one of his sheds for the last 28 years. Some more views below.

 

[chengny]

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[CSFJ]

Kinda to bad you're not in the need for an 85 Cab dammit. But such is the way it is. I'd probably sell this perfect cab 85 C20 cab I have for $400. Have you talked with @toejoe to see if he has a cab for sale? OR, you might want to change back to plan A and save that cab. He has several tornado damaged trucks that he's talked about scrapping. I bet he'd help you out with a junk cab for cheap that maybe crushed on the top, but I bet he has one of those damaged cabs that might have good floors, rockers and cab corners that you could cut good factory sheet metal out of and repair yours. He's in Lafayette, IN. Not sure how far that is from you, but I bet he has something that will help you out. Maybe even a whole cab. Get in touch with him, I'd imagine between the 2 of you, you'll get a good plan together with something he can cut loose of reasonably priced.

Damn, I would have thought that cab would be gone by now. Wish I was in the position to bounce down that way and get it form you. But I probably wouldn't have time until the July shutdown.

 

[HotRodPC]

Damn, I would have thought that cab would be gone by now. Wish I was in the position to bounce down that way and get it form you. But I probably wouldn't have time until the July shutdown.

I just might still have it in July. It's sitting out at my dads on the frame not bolted down. I don't have it advertised anywhere since I can't get out to my dads to show it. If I haven't used it by then, might as well get something out of it.

 

[HotRodPC]

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WOW !!! Just WOW !!! That steering column and floor mat look brand new too. Sounds like a believable story too. I don't think I want to know what you had to pay for that, but I bet it wasn't cheap.

 

[chengny]

I don't think I want to know what you had to pay for that, but I bet it wasn't cheap.

That brings up a good point. Where do you draw the line - on the use of aftermarket body parts? The cost is revealed below.

Some background first: When I first started off "restoring" this truck, I made a decision. I would only build it using NOS - or nearly mint used OEM parts. Also - other than for superficial repairs (for example, to fill a minor ding or an unused mounting hole) no plastic would be allowed.

Doors and hood:

My OEM doors and hood were the only original parts that will be used making up the new truck.

They were removed, taken down to bright metal and found to be basically perfect. I am sure the doors were both replaced at some point - neither of them had even a speck of rust. The hood was completely rust free as well - one ding (about the size of a dime) was faired out with plastic. These parts were primed painted and stored.

Fenders:

Mine were shot - mostly because of dents and distortion. These were rejected and scrapped. One day I happened to see a C/L ad for a pair of OEM fenders. Local post -only about 40 miles from my house. Price $250! Sent one of my sons to the guy's house and he picked them up. Not only were they OEM - they had never even been installed. They were in the garage when the guy bought the house - he had no idea of their value or any vehicle to use them on. These were taken down to bright metal, primed, painted and stored.

Inner fenders:

NOS. These were just a great deal on ebay. The guy had them since the 80's. He only wanted $300. I figured the freight would be about another $150 or so. Called to make shipping arrangements and the guy tells me "Don't worry about that, shipping is included". Free shipping from Nebraska to NH - Yahoo! These were painted on the engine sides (the undersides were stoneguarded) and put into storage.

Bedsides, floor, front panel and tailgate:

No special deal here. Just happened to see a Rhode Island C/L post for this:

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It was as good as it looks. Turned out it was from down south and had never seen road salt. Stripped to bare metal - found no plastic at all and no rust. $1000. Primed, painted and stored.

Continued below.

 

[chengny]

At that point, the only body piece I had deal with was the cab. This is what I was faced with repairing:

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The only replacement parts that GM produced for the cabs of these trucks are/were the rocker panels. Everything else would have to be aftermarket foreign steel. I had come this far with the use of only OEM/NOS parts, and I hated to abandon that policy at this stage in the game.

So I decided to wait and search for a clean (southern states) cab. After months of online searching I had come up with nothing. I was considering renting a flatbed and just going on a roadtrip from junkyard to junkyard - south of the Mason-Dixon Line.

Then I saw the cab shown above. Took me awhile to make the decision to spend the money. But after doing the math, it became apparent that the cost of that NOS cab would be only slightly higher than repairing my rusty shell.

Cost for patch panels wasn't too bad. Two each of the following would have been about $800 total:

Full length floor pans
Inner and outer rockers
Cab floor supports
Cab floor support channels
Cab corners

Labor to properly crop out and install the new parts would be about $1500 (30 hrs X $50/hr). So, including the aftermarket panels, I was looking at about $2300. But had I gone that route, what I was going to end up with would be a cab with a cobbled together floor made up of cheap steel.

The guy that does body work and painting for me is outstanding - but I don't care how good he is. No matter who does the work, welding together a bunch of patch panels made of foreign produced steel can't ever approach the quality of a seamless, one-piece, stamped floor made with 1980's American steel.

I am about a cheap as they come. But, ultimately, I decided to go for it. So, for an extra $700, I got the NOS cab. Yep - it cost me $3000.

 

[HotRodPC]

Breaking it down like you did as far as cost, you made the right call. You got a few extra goodies too with that cab, if it came with that NOS steering column and floor mat. I'm broke, so I'd did give my left nut to have the OEM mat. The aftermarkets are junk IMO. You also got OEM glass provided it's all in tact so you got something for the extra $700 too.

 

[chengny]

Flaws in floor mats:

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[HotRodPC]

Though those flaws would not bother me since they could be fixed to where they dind't spread, that appears to be a low hump automatic trans 2wd hump matt. Not sure I'd be able to get it to work for a high hump Fo buh Fo truck.

How pliable is the mat or lack there of? Do you think if you folded it up for shipping it would crease or maybe even tear due to age and being brittle or is it still quite flexible and soft?

 

[bucket]

Considering the condition of the cab and all the other nice parts still attached, I'd say 3K was a bargain.

 

[Don5]

You did the right thing. I would have never thought twice. I am facing the same problems and more with my cab. If I ran into the same deal and had the money, I would do exactly what you did.

 

[chengny]

that appears to be a low hump automatic trans 2wd hump matt. Not sure I'd be able to get it to work for a high hump Fo buh Fo truck.

Good point, and that is a subject of a heated discussion right now.

On the one side is me: I hate the thought of cutting that perfect floor to install a different tunnel. And, so far, no one can give me a good answer as to why a different "floor and toe panel" is required for 4WD applications - as opposed to a 2WD. The reasons I am hearing are mostly of the "you just can't do it" type.

I am sure there were many 2WD trucks that came out of the factory equipped with a drivetrain exactly like my current set-up (a 350 motor coupled to a TH400 transmission/NP205). Other than an rectangular hole in the top/middle of the hump (for the transfer case gear shift for 4WD), I can't see what would be so different from 2WD to 4WD. Here are a couple of similar angles for each style:

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I don't believe the 4WD designation is what dictates which type of floor is required. There were only two styles of floor & toe panels produced for use in the 85-86. One type was for use with a column shifted transmission and the other was for a floor shifted transmission. Those were the only designations for the two types of floors. There was no mention of 2WD vs. 4WD. See the dwg and parts list below:

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On the other side of this debate are my "friends" who insist that the only way to make this cab fit on a 4WD drivetrain is to mangle the floor and butcher in a tunnel from a 4WD truck. Those guys are jealous **** and they don't know what they are talking about!

All kidding aside, I am sure there is some very valid reason the tunnel must be 4WD specific. I just need to know that reason before taking a torch to this floor:

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How pliable is the mat or lack there of? Do you think if you folded it up for shipping it would crease or maybe even tear due to age and being brittle or is it still quite flexible and soft?

It's amazingly supple. You could literally squish it into a ball and it would not even develop a crease.

And, even though it's flat (i.e. not molded), it lays right down and conforms perfectly to the contours of the floor. Must be made of really high quality rubber. After seeing one of these for the first time, it makes you realize that they really did things right back then.

 

[HotRodPC]

I know it would be hard, but wanting my 4x4 cab right, and OEM correct, especially as nice of a truck you're building, I'd cut it. Ever so carefully though. Another advantage to cutting it, IF you plan it right, and measure right, it would take quite a bit more time, but If I use my 85 C20 cab for my 85 K10 to K20 conversion, I intend to make it a bolt in hump, maybe even 2 pieces bolt in. With my bad back, getting tough to get under these trucks.

I"d be all over that mat for my 86 C20 if I knew I was going to keep it. I know I'm going to have it for awhile anyway, but I think once I get the K10 to K20 project done, and funds come available, I'm wanting to do a K20 Burb or K5 and will also need a mpg commuter car, so the likely hood of keeping 3 squares and a commuter car are going to be slim.

 

[MadOgre]

that appears to be a low hump automatic trans 2wd hump matt. Not sure I'd be able to get it to work for a high hump Fo buh Fo truck.

Good point, and that is a subject of a heated discussion right now.

On the one side is me: I hate the thought of cutting that perfect floor to install a different tunnel. And, so far, no one can give me a good answer as to why a different "floor and toe panel" is required for 4WD applications - as opposed to a 2WD. The reasons I am hearing are mostly of the "you just can't do it" type.

I am sure there were many 2WD trucks that came out of the factory equipped with a drivetrain exactly like my current set-up (a 350 motor coupled to a TH400 transmission/NP205). Other than an rectangular hole in the top/middle of the hump (for the transfer case gear shift for 4WD), I can't see what would be so different from 2WD to 4WD. Here are a couple of similar angles for each style:

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I don't believe the 4WD designation is what dictates which type of floor is required. There were only two styles of floor & toe panels produced for use in the 85-86. One type was for use with a column shifted transmission and the other was for a floor shifted transmission. Those were the only designations for the two types of floors. There was no mention of 2WD vs. 4WD. See the dwg and parts list below:

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On the other side of this debate are my "friends" who insist that the only way to make this cab fit on a 4WD drivetrain is to mangle the floor and butcher in a tunnel from a 4WD truck. Those guys are jealous **** and they don't know what they are talking about!

All kidding aside, I am sure there is some very valid reason the tunnel must be 4WD specific. I just need to know that reason before taking a torch to this floor:

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How pliable is the mat or lack there of? Do you think if you folded it up for shipping it would crease or maybe even tear due to age and being brittle or is it still quite flexible and soft?

It's amazingly supple. You could literally squish it into a ball and it would not even develop a crease.

And, even though it's flat (i.e. not molded), it lays right down and conforms perfectly to the contours of the floor. Must be made of really high quality rubber. After seeing one of these for the first time, it makes you realize that they really did things right back then.

Its my understanding that the linkage was designed to be installed in the high tunnel. So if you install the shifter into your 2wd hump the geometry would be off thus making it difficult if not impossible to properly engage the shift points for your transfer case.

That said I believe a simple solution of cutting the shifter opening in a slightly forward position would accommodate the drop in height to regain the proper geometry in the linkage.

How far forward and clearance issues I know nothing about.

PS: Totally freakin jealous of your shiny red cab!!!