Is this bad? Turbo question

[squaredeal91]

Found this when removing air filter. It's clean up to this line of oil. IS this bad? I'm guessing this means I need to rebuild it because The oil seal is going bad. been a while since ive had to rebuild one. No play of any kind so its good there. I just want to prevent a runaway situation.
Anyone know if this is normal or not? I don't think so because it's always been clean as far as I remember anyway.
This is On a 1993 12 valve VE pump engine.

 

[Buck69]

Can't say I have seen that before. I would be more concerned with the charge air side if seals were a problem.
Is the engine loaded (lugged) often at lower rpm's where the turbo doesn't get a chance to really spool up?

 

[squaredeal91]

Can't say I have seen that before. I would be more concerned with the charge air side if seals were a problem.
Is the engine loaded (lugged) often at lower rpm's where the turbo doesn't get a chance to really spool up?

Maybe a little bit yes. Doesn't get the highway too often but I don't think I lug it that much but I do let it idle some in the morning when I drive it.

 

[Ricko1966]

Can't say I have seen that before. I would be more concerned with the charge air side if seals were a problem.
Is the engine loaded (lugged) often at lower rpm's where the turbo doesn't get a chance to really spool up?

Why would you be more concerned with charge side?

 

[Buck69]

Why would you be more concerned with charge side?

The charge air side is feeding the engine. Checking it, is more relevant as far as turbo seals during inspection.
He mentioned "run away". Have never heard of an oil leak causing that on a 4 stroke, but the old 2 stroke diesel was a different animal. As long as their blower was functioning, it didn't take much to feed them. Probably where his concern came from.
As I'm sure you know, diesels don't have a throttle plate in their intake like gas engines do to hold them back. Their rpm is limited by fuel and load. Sure, they were introduced to diesels with iT4 emissions, but mainly to assist with higher exhaust temps for their regeneration cycles.

 

[Ricko1966]

I understand diesels,and have had one run away on me,it was 4 stroke,I just didn't understand,still don't why oil leaking into the intake side at any point would be more or less concerning.I know mine was drawing oil vapor from the crankcase.

 

[Buck69]

It is just my opinion. I do not make my living in the auto industry so am not up to speed with all the small details of their installations. I have been working with/on diesels off-highway though for over 30 years.
With regards to the charge air side, it is the direction of air flow. If the seals are failing, oil will build up in the charge air side, probably more so at lower boost pressures. If the turbo is performing well, does not have excessive radial play and not building oil in charge air system, I would not be pulling it off for a rebuild.
Was not aware of crankcase gasses being fed directly into the inlet of the turbo but it would make sense of what it going on with his in that event.

 

[Ricko1966]

It is just my opinion. I do not make my living in the auto industry so am not up to speed with all the small details of their installations. I have been working with/on diesels off-highway though for over 30 years.
With regards to the charge air side, it is the direction of air flow. If the seals are failing, oil will build up in the charge air side, probably more so at lower boost pressures. If the turbo is performing well, does not have excessive radial play and not building oil in charge air system, I would not be pulling it off for a rebuild.
Was not aware of crankcase gasses being fed directly into the inlet of the turbo but it would make sense of what it going on with his in that event.

I wasn't starting trouble,was just trying to understand the thinking. When the one ran away on me,it was oil from the crankcase vapors in the airbox, so my natural thought was any oil on the intake side,would be concerning. I was hoping you were some kind of guru,because I always like learning. The crankcase was vented to the air cleaner housing.

 

[squaredeal91]

Here is what it all looks like. No play on intake side in any direction.
It's just got me wondering because it's clean up to there. If it's a little unburned fuel then it's probably not a problem but I just don't recall it being like this always. Anything els I should check?

 

[Blue Ox]

This had me scratching my head for a bit, but I think I finally see what is going on here.

That compressor housing IIRC has a two piece design so air on the pressure side can vent back to the inlet side. That's why we're not seeing oil all the way out to the end of the intake like you would if it's crankcase pullover. You should see a slot that goes around just by the tips of the compressor blades.

I think it's leaking oil behind the compressor wheel. I'd suggest taking the compressor discharge off and see how much oil is in the intake plumbing.

I also don't like that grayish look to the oil. In the photo it looks like it's either ingesting exhaust, or there's aluminum being ground into lapping paste.

 

[squaredeal91]

This had me scratching my head for a bit, but I think I finally see what is going on here.

That compressor housing IIRC has a two piece design so air on the pressure side can vent back to the inlet side. That's why we're not seeing oil all the way out to the end of the intake like you would if it's crankcase pullover. You should see a slot that goes around just by the tips of the compressor blades.

I think it's leaking oil behind the compressor wheel. I'd suggest taking the compressor discharge off and see how much oil is in the intake plumbing.

I also don't like that grayish look to the oil. In the photo it looks like it's either ingesting exhaust, or there's aluminum being ground into lapping paste.

I'll check like you said. And the sample on my finger is just shiny from direct sunlight. It's really just wet black. No aluminum tint. I could always take another pic.

 

[Blue Ox]

I'll check like you said. And the sample on my finger is just shiny from direct sunlight. It's really just wet black. No aluminum tint. I could always take another pic.

Just the picture then. Got it. It just looks really gray in the pic.

 

[squaredeal91]

Belated update. I pulled off the outlet and found some oil. I know I've seen this on powerstrokes and supercharged mini cooper's lol but I don't like it. I have a bigger turbo I've been saving anyways so Maybe it's time to swap. Assuming it's still good too like I think. I think its a wh1c? I'll have too dig it up and look at it. Or I'll just renew this one.
Any Thoughts?

 

[Blue Ox]

Some oil is acceptable and normal. It also depends on your crankcase ventilation. If you have a road-draft tube I'd say it's too much, but if it vents to the intake it may be okay. The only way to be 100% sure is to pull the compressor wheel off and look at the back side. If you do that, make sure you match mark the wheel to the shaft so you can put it back in the same orientation.

Also, any drain restriction or high crankcase pressure can force oil through the seals. The seals are more designed to keep air out of the bearing housing than to keep oil in.

 

[squaredeal91]

@Blue Ox
Crankcase vent is road-draft style and believed to be clear. I don't think i have drain restrictions but haven't looked. I don't think I have blow by wich means I'll have to remove compressor wheel like you mentioned probably to check.