Has anybody removed ethanol from their gas ?

[Grit dog]

I understand your point but not always true. I have several older watercraft that have non-compliant fuel hoses. Ethanol degrades the lines from the inside. Particles flake off, restricting parts of the fuel system. If a high speed jet gets restricted it about $1200 for a top end. Due to the way they were built replacing the lines really isn't possible.

Understood. And yes that is a real concern for older equipment rubber fuel system components exposed to alcohol long term.

 

[Doppleganger]

I bought a case of Tru-Fuel for the snowblower and generator. Those are the 2 that sit the most and TF is marketed as storage grade. They're also the 2 that when they are used, they are very needed, and HAVE to run. I have a 55 gal drum of 4 yr old 100% 94 oct - I used tiwce the stabil in it and it still smells strong and runs fine. When the car is down to a 1/4-1/2 tank, I dump a jerry can of that in, then top it off with fresh and never an issue or mpg penalty. The mower (used ALOT) gets it all the time with no issues either.

 

[Grit dog]

It’s funny how opinions or theories get started or propagate. And I’m sure I have a few of my own….
But the funniest one is, I have a buddy who is one of the most mechanically inclined knowledgeable person I’ve known when it comes to anything car/toy/engine related. Also been riding/racing bikes forever.
He literally buys barrels of race gas every year to run in their dirt bikes, old hot rod vehicles (to be fair, a couple need the octane). And he swears how much better a bone stock bike runs on 110 or 114 octane. Even told me how much better his sled ran at high altitude (stock, tuned for premium) with race gas! The last one made me lol as it is even more opposite of what is correct than running it in his bikes at sea level!

Guy knows more than me about a lot of things and I’ve hinted before, to no avail. I think he just likes bragging that he burns a couple $600 barrels of smell good gas every year!

 

[Grit dog]

I bought a case of Tru-Fuel for the snowblower and generator. Those are the 2 that sit the most and TF is marketed as storage grade. They're also the 2 that when they are used, they are very needed, and HAVE to run. I have a 55 gal drum of 4 yr old 100% 94 oct - I used tiwce the stabil in it and it still smells strong and runs fine. When the car is down to a 1/4-1/2 tank, I dump a jerry can of that in, then top it off with fresh and never an issue or mpg penalty. The mower (used ALOT) gets it all the time with no issues either.

Ouch! That’s $$$$! NMFB but there are solutions to having the best quality fuel you can for about 75% less $ than Tru Fuel or other fuels marketed similarly. Just throwing that out there that there are far cheaper products that accomplish the same thing (stability and long shelf life).

 

[Doppleganger]

Ouch! That’s $$$$! NMFB but there are solutions to having the best quality fuel you can for about 75% less $ than Tru Fuel or other fuels marketed similarly. Just throwing that out there that there are far cheaper products that accomplish the same thing (stability and long shelf life).

It is....Rural King's house brand (just cant remember what they call the same stuff). About $4/qt. but goes along way. I also notice in the snowblower especially, it seems to go further than regular gas.....and NEVER an issue with starting. When you have 14" drifts in the driveway or power out in 95F (and freezers full of meat).....the few extra $ is irrelevant at that moment.

 

[SirRobyn0]

I’ve not had issues with E10 if it’s used in a reasonable amount of time.

I understand your point but not always true. I have several older watercraft that have non-compliant fuel hoses. Ethanol degrades the lines from the inside. Particles flake off, restricting parts of the fuel system. If a high speed jet gets restricted it about $1200 for a top end. Due to the way they were built replacing the lines really isn't possible.

I agree with Grit Dog. Those lines that you are having fall apart, how old were they to begin with? Look I don't have watercraft experience, but on cars and trucks this happens all the time. Customer comes in complaining that their fuel lines are falling apart because of the E10, but those lines are like 40 years old.... You gotta be kidding me that's an age failure.

One big benefit we see at the shop because of the E10 is that we have fewer injector failures, and rarely need to do a decarb on modern cars anymore. The Ethanol in the E10 is a great cleaner. Again I do not have watercraft experience, and IDK I didn't think the thread was about that. But in cars and trucks problems from it seem to stem from a dirty fuel system or neglected rubber components or fuel that has sat for too long.

 

[Bextreme04]

I understand your point but not always true. I have several older watercraft that have non-compliant fuel hoses. Ethanol degrades the lines from the inside. Particles flake off, restricting parts of the fuel system. If a high speed jet gets restricted it about $1200 for a top end. Due to the way they were built replacing the lines really isn't possible.

I would use the old fuel line to pull new, ethanol safe fuel line through before they completely degrade. Once the old line degrades enough to where it is falling apart, you are screwed, but while it is still intact you should be able to tape the heck out of the end to brand new hose and yank it through.


Its also an important note that fuel with ethanol in it has a different stoichiometric ratio than pure gas. So if you drive on E10 all the time, you actually should be tuning for 14.1:1 AFR rather than the standard pure gasoline 14.7:1. This means if you tuned your carb on ethanol free gas and then run regular pump gas... you are running equivalently richer. The opposite is also true, and much more dangerous. If you fine tuned a carb with ethanol free gas and then decide to run regular pump gas... you are now equivalently leaner and more susceptible to detonation

 

[Grit dog]

It is....Rural King's house brand (just cant remember what they call the same stuff). About $4/qt. but goes along way. I also notice in the snowblower especially, it seems to go further than regular gas.....and NEVER an issue with starting. When you have 14" drifts in the driveway or power out in 95F (and freezers full of meat).....the few extra $ is irrelevant at that moment.

I agree with you 1000% in concept. In fact, drained the gas out of our generator (the one for when the power goes out) a couple weeks ago and dumped in a gallon or so of AV gas. Now I know it can sit for a couple years minimum and still fire right up.
Currently AV/100LL was $5.73/ gal last weekend when I filled the snomachines. Last ride of the year so they’re now parked with good gas until wintertime again.

 

[Doppleganger]

I agree with you 1000% in concept. In fact, drained the gas out of our generator (the one for when the power goes out) a couple weeks ago and dumped in a gallon or so of AV gas. Now I know it can sit for a couple years minimum and still fire right up.
Currently AV/100LL was $5.73/ gal last weekend when I filled the snomachines. Last ride of the year so they’re now parked with good gas until wintertime again.

Thats pretty good stuff - didn't realize it was around here - 5 spots - going to check it out. Used to be an old Sunoco that had 105 octane that closed and re-opened as a Marathon....and no more 105.

 

[Bextreme04]

Thats pretty good stuff - didn't realize it was around here - 5 spots - going to check it out. Used to be an old Sunoco that had 105 octane that closed and re-opened as a Marathon....and no more 105.

You have to find the right spot to get it, it's technically highly illegal to use it in anything except an airplane and most managed airports will not allow you to fill gas cans because they can get in deep trouble if caught by the EPA or local governments. It is a double issue, since they don't collect their road taxes and also it's leaded fuel. Also, if you have catalytic converters, 100LL will destroy them.

 

[Grit dog]

You have to find the right spot to get it, it's technically highly illegal to use it in anything except an airplane and most managed airports will not allow you to fill gas cans because they can get in deep trouble if caught by the EPA or local governments. It is a double issue, since they don't collect their road taxes and also it's leaded fuel. Also, if you have catalytic converters, 100LL will destroy them.

Suppose I should have mentioned that, lol.
I generally use it only for 2 stroke tools and off road toys, but yes you’re correct.
I figure that ain’t the most illegal thing I’ve ever done, so…
The blue truck has 10-15 gal in it right now. Truck has been sitting for almost a year and a half now, save for a few starts to move it in and out of the shop. Gas still smells good and it lights off like I just drove it yesterday!

 

[fast 99]

I would use the old fuel line to pull new, ethanol safe fuel line through before they completely degrade. Once the old line degrades enough to where it is falling apart, you are screwed, but while it is still intact you should be able to tape the heck out of the end to brand new hose and yank it through.


Its also an important note that fuel with ethanol in it has a different stoichiometric ratio than pure gas. So if you drive on E10 all the time, you actually should be tuning for 14.1:1 AFR rather than the standard pure gasoline 14.7:1. This means if you tuned your carb on ethanol free gas and then run regular pump gas... you are running equivalently richer. The opposite is also true, and much more dangerous. If you fine tuned a carb with ethanol free gas and then decide to run regular pump gas... you are now equivalently leaner and more susceptible to detonation

Problem with running a new line is the shut off valve. It is on inside of the upper 1/2 of the hull behind the carbs. These are Sea Doo XP's. I did change the lines on one of them but almost need a blood transfusion afterwards. I checked the lines on the other ones they are OK. Have been running e free only.

On your air fuel ratio explanation, I have a couple Kawasaki triples. They are very temperamental and will only run correctly on straight AV gas. That fuel is probably the only fuel available today that is close to 70's formulations. On the Kaw bike forums they not only talk about the AFR but also the weight of the fuel itself. It is different between types. I know were kind of getting in the weeds on this, fuel is a huge subject.

Your also correct on rich/lean issue. On a carbed vehicle changing back and forth between E free and regular might cause drivability issues. If an O2 vehicle they can adjust up to a point. If we are forced to use 15% ethanol, O2 vehicles on the edge might develop problems as well. I think the systems can only adjust up to 20% from ideal.

 

[Doppleganger]

If it will (safely) run the generator and snow blower....I'm in. Wouldn't need but a couple of jerry cans to last a long while.

 

[Doppleganger]

My truck is Edelbrock FI, but no cats. Would it run ok in that? Or would the ECU have a hissy fit?

 

[Snoots]

If you're worried about ethanol ruining your fuel lines:

The trick is to use SAE spec J30R10 submersible fuel line. SAE spec J30R10 will last when submerged
in gasoline, alcohol and other types of fuel without a problem
while std J30R9 hose will not.

Most counter guys don't know about this but NAPA carries it.

So much for fuel line. New fuel pump seals and diaphrams already are made with the right stuff.
Older fuel injection lines and carbs can't handle it. New carb rebuild kits do.