Brake issue

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

79ramp

Full Access Member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Posts
53
Reaction score
25
Location
Everett, WA
First Name
Aaron
Truck Year
1979
Truck Model
C30
Engine Size
454
I am having a brake issue in the '79 C30 ramp truck. I have gone through, quite literally, everything in the past year. New rotors, calipers, pads in the front; new drums, shoes, and wheel cylinders in the rear; all new SS lines, new proportioning valve, new MC, and rebuilt hydroboost.

I got in it the other day to stretch her legs and it feels like something is dragging. The brake light comes on when I push the pedal (I believe that happens when the prop valve is pushing more to one output than another). The brake pedal is also slow to return (but that may be unrelated, the return spring broke and I've been on the hunt for a new one, no luck so far).

I am going to take the wheels off this week or weekend to get another look. If anyone has any thoughts for what I might check for other than something sticking/binding, any help is appreciated. Will probably try to bleed the brakes to see if that helps...and then try to find where air got in if it does...
 

bucket

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Posts
30,446
Reaction score
28,349
Location
Usually not in Ohio
First Name
Andy
Truck Year
'77, '78, '79, '84, '88
Truck Model
K5 thru K30
Engine Size
350-454
Jack the thing up so all wheels are off the ground. With the truck running, and with a helper, push in the pedal lightly and feel which wheels tend to grab first. Then push harder and make sure no wheels can turn. Then let off the brake and see which wheels tend to stick. It will probably take several tests unless you have 4 helpers.
 

79ramp

Full Access Member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Posts
53
Reaction score
25
Location
Everett, WA
First Name
Aaron
Truck Year
1979
Truck Model
C30
Engine Size
454
Jack the thing up so all wheels are off the ground. With the truck running, and with a helper, push in the pedal lightly and feel which wheels tend to grab first. Then push harder and make sure no wheels can turn. Then let off the brake and see which wheels tend to stick. It will probably take several tests unless you have 4 helpers.

Thanks! I would not have thought of that but it is a great idea.
 

chengny

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Posts
4,086
Reaction score
1,023
Location
NH
First Name
Jerry
Truck Year
1986
Truck Model
K3500
Engine Size
350/5.7
I am having a brake issue in the '79 C30 ramp truck. I have gone through, quite literally, everything in the past year. New rotors, calipers, pads in the front; new drums, shoes, and wheel cylinders in the rear; all new SS lines, new proportioning valve, new MC, and rebuilt hydroboost.

I got in it the other day to stretch her legs and it feels like something is dragging. The brake light comes on when I push the pedal (I believe that happens when the prop valve is pushing more to one output than another). The brake pedal is also slow to return (but that may be unrelated, the return spring broke and I've been on the hunt for a new one, no luck so far).

I am going to take the wheels off this week or weekend to get another look. If anyone has any thoughts for what I might check for other than something sticking/binding, any help is appreciated. Will probably try to bleed the brakes to see if that helps...and then try to find where air got in if it does...


The primary functions of a BPC valve are metering (i.e. by initially limiting the flow of hydraulic fluid to the front circuit until the rear brakes can make frictional contact with the rotating assemblies and the hydraulic pressure in the rear circuit begins to rise).

Once that design pressure in the rear circuit is met, the spool in the BPC valve overcomes spring pressure and shifts -allowing flow to the front brakes. Also at that point, the BPC valve becomes a proportioning valve and it's primary function is to limit flow pressure to the rear circuit. During periods of heavy deceleration, a certain percentage of the vehicle's weight that is normally carried by the rear wheels shifts to the front wheels. The resultant loss of downward force at the rear tires makes them more apt to lose traction with the road surface and skid/fishtail. But, because the proportioning valve is limiting the degree of hydraulic pressure in the rear circuit, the tires can continue to roll on the road.

And, without sufficient back pressure in either circuit, it also provides you with a brake failure warning light.

So, when you mention the following, it might contain some important info:

The brake light comes on when I push the pedal (I believe that happens when the prop valve is pushing more to one output than another). The brake pedal is also slow to return (but that may be unrelated, the return spring broke and I've been on the hunt for a new one, no luck so far).

1. Your BPC valve is new and I assume your plumbing is tight

2. Your rears were recently rebuilt (albeit without a return spring). Having only one return spring is really the same as having zero return springs.

3. Also, due to the above, your star adjuster on that side is probably useless. The drum/shoe clearance on the initial application is likely way over limit. It is re-established with the first stroke of the master cylinder, but that brings up another problem.

4. Weak or broken return springs: Proportioning valves maintain a residual pressure on the drum brake system after the brake pedal has been released. If the return springs are too weak to overcome the residual pressure in the system, the shoes will drag against the drum. Your initial complaint.

So, when you first apply the brakes, three (bad) things are happening. The normal drum/shoe clearance has to be re-established every time (star adjuster).

And, because there is no tension being exerted on the wheel cylinder pistons by the return spring system, the necessary back pressure - that helps the spool stay centered within the BPC valve body - is slow to develop. Consequently, the spool shifts way over and trips the warning switch.

Oh, and without return springs, the shoes will tend to stay out against the drum - and cause a dragging sensation.

I might be totally wrong, but if it were me, I would start my search for trouble at the rear brake - the one that is missing a return spring.
 

79ramp

Full Access Member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Posts
53
Reaction score
25
Location
Everett, WA
First Name
Aaron
Truck Year
1979
Truck Model
C30
Engine Size
454
Just to be clear, it is the brake pedal that is missing the return spring. The rear brakes have all springs and they're all new.

But that is good info, thanks! Kinda makes me think maybe I have some air in the lines somewhere. Next time it isn't pouring rain, going to try bucket's suggestion then bleed the system and check all springs, adjusters, etc. to make sure nothing is broken.
 

bucket

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Posts
30,446
Reaction score
28,349
Location
Usually not in Ohio
First Name
Andy
Truck Year
'77, '78, '79, '84, '88
Truck Model
K5 thru K30
Engine Size
350-454
My suggestion was basically to isolate which part of the brake circuit might be problematic. Then you can focus on that one area to try finding the problem.
 

79ramp

Full Access Member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Posts
53
Reaction score
25
Location
Everett, WA
First Name
Aaron
Truck Year
1979
Truck Model
C30
Engine Size
454
Brake work is probably going to be this weekend. I am trying to find a new pedal return spring but not having much luck, anyone know where I can find one? Checked the local junk yards to no avail.
 

Frankenchevy

Proverbs 16:18
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Posts
6,084
Reaction score
7,759
Location
USA
First Name
Jeremy
Truck Year
Square
Truck Model
CUCV
Engine Size
Small
Did you thoroughly bench bleed the master cylinder?
 

Frankenchevy

Proverbs 16:18
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Posts
6,084
Reaction score
7,759
Location
USA
First Name
Jeremy
Truck Year
Square
Truck Model
CUCV
Engine Size
Small
I used to do two person bleed jobs on stuff. I always do vacuum bleeds now. Then you always get every last bubble out of the system. Doesn’t matter the vehicle. You can bench bleed the master in 5 minutes, then all four corners in about 20 minutes. It eliminates all headaches. Half hour, boom...done!
 

hatzie

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Posts
567
Reaction score
459
Location
NH
First Name
David
Truck Year
1976
Truck Model
k20
Engine Size
6.5
Weed sprayer pressure bleeders work quite well. You can buy one ready made from Motive Products or build your own. They're the only thing that's allowed me to get all the air out of the ABS units on the newer cars.

Here's one of the better pressure pot cap arrangements for the cast iron master cylinders...
The non-aeration pump mod is fairly clever as well.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forum...emade-motive-type-power-bleeder-for-14-a.html

I've used welding clamps, a chunk of Wally World plastic cutting board, copper tubing, glue, and a chunk of inner tube as a gasket. It's a little messy when I pull it off the master but it works every time. Vacuum bleeders don't seal very well for me.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
44,169
Posts
950,812
Members
36,286
Latest member
goodwrenchca
Top