All new parts and still burning ign modules.. what else to check

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Nasty-LSX

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New cap new coil new rotor new module (AGAIN) Brand new Alt.

After all this new stuff the truck will stay running for 5/10 seconds then just burn the module..

So I borrowed one of my friends good hei dizzy and installed it. 5 seconds later it burned up..

I have read and read and found nothing to remedy this cancer.. What are my other options before burning my truck down?? Thanks.

Yes im using the dielectric grease.:yawn:

1985 k20 5.7 4x4
 

chengny

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the truck will stay running for 5/10 seconds then just burn the module..

That's crazy.

When you say they are burning up, you are talking about internally/electrically correct? And this is only apparent when checked with a meter (or the module is replaced and then it runs for another few seconds)? You don't mean that they are like...melted or look like charcoal on the outside, do you?

And that's a stock 86 truck, not with a wiring harness from an older model, a converted diesel - stuff like that?

ESC (7 pin) type or the old 4 pin version?

The big questions:

1. What recent modifications did you do to the truck prior to this problem starting?

2. In the same vein, what was the last thing you did (not mods, just like maintenance procedures) before it happened the first time?
 
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chengny

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If the alternator is new and system voltage is normal, that's out.

Even switching to your friend's entire distributor blew his module, so the dist internals are out.

Eliminate the external circuits/components - that's all there is left.

First disconnect the tach if there is one. Try it and see.

If it immediately blows another module, the next step would be to pull all the plug wires from the cap. Crank for a few seconds, replace one wire and test the module by checking for spark at that plug/wire.

If you get spark and it stays for a few seconds, try adding another. It will be a long trial and error process to find out what wire(s) is /are causing the issue.

But other than the tach or an over voltage situation, some problem in the secondary is all I got.

Found this while thinking about what else could you try to change:

MOST COMMON CAUSE, apprx. 99 percent

IGNITION COIL IN THE CAP. Epoxy filled coils in HEI caps are a heat stove, they do not leach heat out of themselves, as an oil filled coil does, and, this heat leads to "layer shorting", when the coil literally melts the insulation way from the individual layers of primary windings. As the windings touch, the change coil resistance on the primary side radically increases, creating massive load on the HEI, MSD, or other module, to failure. This can be gradual, exponential, or, immediate failure.

I have seen layer shorted HEI coils take a brand new, quality HEI module right out in less than 30 seconds flat.

To properly test both an HEI module, and/or HEI coil, resistance checks are no longer effective, unless both are full on DOA. Both parts will need to be run on an off vehicle run tester, most better auto part stores have them. The "tech" there will most likely want to test the parts for 5 seconds, decree they are good or bad, and let it go. Don't let them do that, let the parts run right up to operating temperatures, as that is where most failures occur, not when cold (you did mention the problem occurs at or near 30 minute operation times).

Do check all grounds, especially at the coil, there are two. First is under the coil, in the form of a buss bar from the coil yoke to cap term GRD, second is the wire out of the coil to one of the coil mounts. HEI in cap coils MUST be grounded. This wire grounds the coil to its yoke, the buss bar from the yoke to the 3 wire connector center terminal on the cap. From the cap, through the terminal, ground continues to the distributor body, with the end of the ground wire being retained to the distributor body with a screw. Any dirty/loose/corroded terminal will increase coil resistance, which can help build coill load, overloading modules to failure.

Check the resistance of the spark plug wires as well, 'rule of thumb' is usually 1,000 ohms per foot of wire length. Wires must be magnetic suppression, spiral, or "magna" core, and 8mm. Resistor plugs are OK, but, critical, spark plug gap should not exceed .045 inch gaps, MAXIMUM.

On the two different coils for large cap HEI, yup, there arte. One is the one to use, fits most applications, .045 plug gaps. The other was a cap that was supposedly to help with emissions control from a larger .060 to .080 plug gap. These large gap coils were used mostly on Olds engines, and, some very few Pontiac, Cadillac left hand rotation distributors, UNTIL it was found the massively giant plug gaps were taking those coils, and HEI modules right out from too much resistance created heat. The factory then issued a FDM to order the effected coils replaced, with the smaller gap coils.
 
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Nasty-LSX

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85 completely stock. No mods what so ever. drove like a champ for years.

One day I was parked at a dumpster unloading trash and it turned off. Thats when it all started.. 5 modules later and cant figure it out. Its not getting so hot the modules are melting. no sign of electrical issues or melted wires. Grounds are good everywhere and in the coil also, under dust cover of coil.
 

chengny

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Something must be causing an overcurrent situation inside the module and what kills me is you changed out to another complete distributor.

You have proper voltage, no tach, and the plug wire thing is a stretch - I admit.

There is one other possible cause - the distributor isn't properly grounded. By that, I don't mean these:

Grounds are good everywhere and in the coil also, under dust cover of coil.


I'm talking about the ground path to the engine block that completes the circuit back from the plugs to the distributor internals.

The HEI's have a flat strap on the coil in the cap, it goes over to the plug going to the base of the distributor module. You know all that.

But it is ultimately grounded to the block. The path to the block is tough. To get there, it has to have continuity down the distributor shaft sleeve, into the distributor hold down clamp, out of the clamp and into the locking bolt. Finally the bolt must have a good clean contact with the threads in the manifold. That means the electrons have to flow through all the paint/rust/grease. Finally, it's through the manifold into the cylinder heads and onto to the spark plug outer electrodes.

I know this is as much of a stretch as the secondary ignition idea but, I mean...what else can you do. It wouldn't take 5 minutes to at least run a temporary extra ground strap from the shaft casing to a bolt on on of the cylinder heads. It it ever worked, you'd be happy as a pig in **** and could make a nice permanent strap later.

Then again it might be better - and a lot easier - to just clean up the clamp, bolt and threads
 
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chengny

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This guy says it better:

the spark path.. coil output terminal, cap center button, rotor.. jumps to a cap termial, thru the spark plug wire .. spark plug.. jumps the gap. thru the heads to the intake manifold.. to the hold down clamp bolt and clamp.. then the distributor housing .. thru the hold down screw.. the black wire to the cap.. the folded ground strap.. the coil laminations then to the black wire from the coil winding...

actually it goes the other direction but ..
 

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Poor to bad grounds is the biggest killer of anything electrical.
Be sure that ALL of the terminals are clean and corrosion free.
Also, where the hold down clamp meets the distributor.
Make sure that the body to engine ground strap is connected and its terminals are clean and shiny.
 

chengny

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Jeezum Crow - Marty, you're back. I can't believe it. Where in the **** have you been?

Once again, I thought sure you were dead. What are you, like some kind of CIA agent and need to go deep under cover for months or years at a time.

Anyway, now that your back, don't think you can just sit around on your ass. Get out there and fix some trucks!

BTW the way, this is very sound advice and well stated. Sounds kinda familiar though. Maybe I'm loosing it.


Poor to bad grounds is the biggest killer of anything electrical.
Be sure that ALL of the terminals are clean and corrosion free.
Also, where the hold down clamp meets the distributor.
Make sure that the body to engine ground strap is connected and its terminals are clean and shiny.
 

MrMarty51

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Jeezum Crow - Marty, you're back. I can't believe it. Where in the **** have you been?

Once again, I thought sure you were dead. What are you, like some kind of CIA agent and need to go deep under cover for months or years at a time.

Anyway, now that your back, don't think you can just sit around on your ass. Get out there and fix some trucks!

BTW the way, this is very sound advice and well stated. Sounds kinda familiar though. Maybe I'm loosing it.

Been fixin lots of stuff, mostly small stuff though, takes big buks toi fix big things, no bigbuks here. :shrug::popcorn::happy175:

If it cost a nickel to ****, I`d have to just stand around and gindum out. :happy175:
 

Nasty-LSX

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still working out of town. Have not had time to find the problem yet. Thanks for the replies so far..:gathering:
 

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