Advice on starter issue

[Retro Rich]

Hi all,

Have a little bit of an "issue" with my buddy's 79 GMC 3/4 ton. The starter is not wanting to disengage after you turn the key forward and "engage" the starter on initial start up. Have been chasing this down for the last two weeks, still can't figure it out. Here is the list of what's been done to try and resolve the problem by him:

Ignition switch-replaced
Steering column-rebuilt by a local shop, including new key/tumbler and ensuring that the nylon gear in there with the rod that moves the ignition switch to correct position for start/run/stop
Starter/solenoid--one that was on the truck was tested, was ok. He decided to replace anyway since he wasn't confident on the bench testing of starter/solenoid...still the same issue
Wiring-new wire run to starter from ignition

Any words of wisdom/advice on this?

Thanks!

RR

 

[foamypirate]

First thing to determine is if it's mechanical or electrical. You can try shimming the starter out a bit to see if the bendix retracts as it should. If it doesn't, then it's probably electrical. Did your friend replace the entire starter, or just the solenoid?

 

[89Suburban]

Excellent point Foamy!!!! Check the clearance on the teeth between the starter and flywheel!

See post #32:

http://www.gmsquarebody.com/forum/showthread.php?t=931&highlight=starter&page=3

 

[chengny]

If the problem has been going on for any significant length of time, the damage may have already been done - shimming alone won't help.

If, even after trying all the shim combinations, the pinion still hangs up when the key is released (or has trouble meshing on the way in) check the condition of the ring gear.


Pull the starter and, while barring the engine over, inspect the teeth on the ring gear one by one. Individual teeth, or groups of several teeth in a row, may be damaged.

If the leading edges of the gear teeth are deformed, the pinion gear will have trouble engaging the ring gear. And, if the trailing faces are banged up the Bendix will have trouble disengaging the pinion when the solenoid is de-energized.

If this is the case; it sucks, but it's not the end of the world. The ring gear teeth can be dressed up with the engine still in place using a file.

If, after inspection, you find only a few teeth (or one group) that need to be dressed - this can be done at the starter mounting hole.

On the other hand, if several groups of teeth (or nearly all of them) have been damaged, it is easier to pull the strut rods and drop the T/C splash shield. You will have easy access to large sec ions of the ring gear. This extra step will actually save time in the long run.

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Use a 3-square (triangular) file to reform the teeth back to their original profiles. Do both the leading and trailing sides of each tooth. Also run a file across the teeth (parallel to the flexplate) this will smooth out any burrs from the front faces - so they are flush with the ring.

While you are inspecting the ring gear, take a look at the pinion gear. It may be damaged as well.

 

[Retro Rich]

First thing to determine is if it's mechanical or electrical. You can try shimming the starter out a bit to see if the bendix retracts as it should. If it doesn't, then it's probably electrical. Did your friend replace the entire starter, or just the solenoid?

Thanks foamy...yes, he replaced entire starter (including solenoid) since it wasn't that costly....so I think it leans more toward electrical than anything. To me, it almost sounds like once it gets the juice to engage it doesn't want to disengage...which is odd even with the key "springing back" from the start position. The starter will just keep going...he kind of freaks out a little and just shuts it back down before the engine is actually running. That's why we leaned toward ignition switch and also that rod mechanism in the column...but that hasn't solved it either.

 

[robert8096]

Hook up a remote starter button and see how it reacts. If it woks correctly then you are fighting a switch issue if it doesn't then you are fighting a starter/flexplate issue.

http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7853-Remote-Starter-Switch/dp/B0009XQUKW

 

[Retro Rich]

Thanks all...it turned out to be more (much, much more) than the starter. Appreciate all the words of advice on this one.

 

[chengny]

Dude, WTF?

it turned out to be more (much, much more) than the starter.

Don't leave us hangin' - we all appreciate a good sea story.

 

[gpmorgan]

I've had this same issue with re-man starters. I've heard of people having to shim starters before but in my years of wrenching I've never had to use shims. I've replaced a lot of starters on mobile equipment and when this problem arises I always install another starter.

 

[jux]

Retro Rich, many of us pretty much neeed to hear what the real problem was....

 

[89Suburban]

Retro Rich, many of us pretty much neeed to hear what the real problem was....

Yes please.

 

[Retro Rich]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been on in a bit. Well, it was one of those "house of cards" issues as with any older vehicle. Turned out the shop that "rebuilt" the steering column did a crap job, didn't do anything worth a damn and I believe the ignition switch was still hanging up. After that, the switchlock was bypassed with an old school starter button mounted under the dash. The first couple from O'Reilly were junk made in the orient that didn't hold together worth a damn, third one from Napa worked like a charm. After the starter issue was resolved, the ignition coil and flyweights on the distributor went within no time after that. After replacing the distributor and most of the ignition system, along with another starter (while he was bumping it to get it to TDC when I wasn't there, the front cone completely shattered on the reman starter...bad casting) it is finally running. With bypassing many things that came original on the truck to get it functional again, I believe he has a gremlin/short somewhere in the factory wiring harness. But, it's running now...and I told him to get his money back from the idiots that rebuilt the steering column. My 9-year old could have done a better job than those morons.

Kicker was O'Reilly didn't want to take the starter back at first. I believe bumping an engine slightly with a supposedly reman starter shouldn't shatter it...never had one do it that easy for me in my lifetime. They finally agreed to replace it.

 

[89Suburban]

Use a pipe wrench on the lower pulley to turn the motor over. At least you got it running lol.

 

[ice205]

ok .. in case many ppl havent told you there are 2 type of starter and bolts for checy 350 motors be sure u have the correct ones installed and 2 double check starter housing new ones are not always the same as the old ones ....

 

[89Suburban]

ok .. in case many ppl havent told you there are 2 type of starter and bolts for checy 350 motors be sure u have the correct ones installed and 2 double check starter housing new ones are not always the same as the old ones ....

Really?