Advice and Parts recommendations for some 6.2 cam/valvetrain work?

[Hunter79764]

This isn't in a square, but my wife's daily, 2013 Yukon Denali XL with the 6.2 and a Texas Speed VVT Stage 2 cam (installed with a DOD delete ~4 years ago) is giving me some problems. The long Version:
A year ago, I got a P219B code (A/F imbalance, Bank 2) and valvetrain noise. Pulled the valve cover on bank 2 and saw a factory rocker was trashed, not surprising with the stiff springs and cam, so I replaced them all with a set of Summit's upgraded trunnion rockers. Pushrods and everything else was fine.
Last month, I get a P219A (Bank 1 A/F imbalance), I pull the bank 1 cover, cylinder 7 exhaust rocker was trashed. Scratched my head a little, then got another under warranty at Summit, installed it and everything was fine.
Yesterday, I'm driving home, 2 blocks away it feels funny and almost stalls at a light. It cleared up when I took off, then felt funny again as I rolled up to my house, at the same time, got a flashing check engine code, P219A... Started it to see if I heard anything, ran rough, then heard a bit of a scraping noise and turned it off. Pulled valve cover on Bank 1 tonight, valves seemed to all be lifting properly (as much as I could measure with a machinist's ruler), pulled all rockers, all turned free etc., pushrods straight, rotated engine and lifters seemed to hold in their trays.
Tried running it as a 4 then a 6 cylinder (by removing pushrods and letting lifters stay up in the tray) to see if I could hear the scraping noise without pressure on the cam (thinking I might have a lifter rotated in a broken tray and/or a wiped out cam lobe). It ran, but rough, and I couldn't tell one way or the other, I just knew it was all kinds of wrong.

I'm probably at the point that I just need to tear it down, pull the heads, inspect lifters and cam, etc., unless someone has better ideas. That's the advice part.
The next part, who should I be getting lifter trays and lifters from? What about head gaskets? I live 20 minutes from Summit Racing, and Amazon gets me parts about as quick as that so I prefer those if possible. I need to watch my money, but I am in NO WAY wanting to do this again. GM OEM parts and gaskets? Fel Pro? Summit brand?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bextreme04]

This isn't in a square, but my wife's daily, 2013 Yukon Denali XL with the 6.2 and a Texas Speed VVT Stage 2 cam (installed with a DOD delete ~4 years ago) is giving me some problems. The long Version:
A year ago, I got a P219B code (A/F imbalance, Bank 2) and valvetrain noise. Pulled the valve cover on bank 2 and saw a factory rocker was trashed, not surprising with the stiff springs and cam, so I replaced them all with a set of Summit's upgraded trunnion rockers. Pushrods and everything else was fine.
Last month, I get a P219A (Bank 1 A/F imbalance), I pull the bank 1 cover, cylinder 7 exhaust rocker was trashed. Scratched my head a little, then got another under warranty at Summit, installed it and everything was fine.
Yesterday, I'm driving home, 2 blocks away it feels funny and almost stalls at a light. It cleared up when I took off, then felt funny again as I rolled up to my house, at the same time, got a flashing check engine code, P219A... Started it to see if I heard anything, ran rough, then heard a bit of a scraping noise and turned it off. Pulled valve cover on Bank 1 tonight, valves seemed to all be lifting properly (as much as I could measure with a machinist's ruler), pulled all rockers, all turned free etc., pushrods straight, rotated engine and lifters seemed to hold in their trays.
Tried running it as a 4 then a 6 cylinder (by removing pushrods and letting lifters stay up in the tray) to see if I could hear the scraping noise without pressure on the cam (thinking I might have a lifter rotated in a broken tray and/or a wiped out cam lobe). It ran, but rough, and I couldn't tell one way or the other, I just knew it was all kinds of wrong.

I'm probably at the point that I just need to tear it down, pull the heads, inspect lifters and cam, etc., unless someone has better ideas. That's the advice part.
The next part, who should I be getting lifter trays and lifters from? What about head gaskets? I live 20 minutes from Summit Racing, and Amazon gets me parts about as quick as that so I prefer those if possible. I need to watch my money, but I am in NO WAY wanting to do this again. GM OEM parts and gaskets? Fel Pro? Summit brand?

Thanks in advance.

I used GM trays and Delphi LS7 lifters sourced through Michigan Motorsports. I used factory GM 6.2 headgaskets from Summit. They are only ~$30 each I think. I also did an ARP headbolt kit at the same time, because why not. You might want to run a compression test on it, both to see what the plugs look like and also to see what compression is. Is this the older low lift version (.600/.600) or the newer one with more lift?

 

[Hunter79764]

I think I used Michigan Motorsports lifter and tray setup, but it was also right at the front end of Covid when everything was crazy, so it might just be a bad batch (assuming that's my issue). Pretty sure I used GM head gaskets, no reason for me to switch then.

I looked it up, it was a 220/232 .600/.600 L92 VVT Stage 2. Looks like they don't offer the VVT cams anymore, and their L92 stage 2 now recommends 2800 minimum stall... If I need to replace the cam, looks like I will have to go 3 bolt and no VVT, probably just as well since no one wants to tune them. And I'll probably drop back to Stage 1 for momma's car.

I figured out how to space this out a bit by getting my old yukon back on the road, meaning I'll actually be able to tear it down, inspect, then order as needed instead of ordering everything ahead of time. I'm afraid of what I'm going to find

 

[Bextreme04]

I think I used Michigan Motorsports lifter and tray setup, but it was also right at the front end of Covid when everything was crazy, so it might just be a bad batch (assuming that's my issue). Pretty sure I used GM head gaskets, no reason for me to switch then.

I looked it up, it was a 220/232 .600/.600 L92 VVT Stage 2. Looks like they don't offer the VVT cams anymore, and their L92 stage 2 now recommends 2800 minimum stall... If I need to replace the cam, looks like I will have to go 3 bolt and no VVT, probably just as well since no one wants to tune them. And I'll probably drop back to Stage 1 for momma's car.

I figured out how to space this out a bit by getting my old yukon back on the road, meaning I'll actually be able to tear it down, inspect, then order as needed instead of ordering everything ahead of time. I'm afraid of what I'm going to find

Yeah, I got the Stage 1 L92. Now they only have the Stage2 VVT and it is a second Generation of that cam with more lift. They no longer offer a stage 1 version. I was very tempted to go with a non VVT version and convert to a 3 bolt cam gear.. hopefully I won't regret it.

Another thing I saw is that the .600 lift is within the range of the stock beehive springs, and I've seen several recommendations to just run the beehive springs instead of the dual springs with the higher pressures if you aren't spinning it up to high RPM's regularly. Since its a truck and tops out ~6500RPM.. I'm seriously considering swapping out the PAC dual springs for the beehives.

 

[Bextreme04]

Keep us updated on what you find.. I'm really curious to see how this plays out

 

[Hunter79764]

Not the update you're looking for, but it's the update I've got. Dad came in Friday afternoon (that's him standing in front of the finished truck), it rained all day Saturday, but Sunday evening by 11 it was 90% done and still ugly, but much less ugly. Still need to splice a trans cooler line, then refill all fluids and get it moved out and cleaned up from where it's sat for over a year. and eventually the hood gaps straightened out and a fresh coat of paint on the new/used hood and maybe the fender, but for now the paint was the same color code and the price was right. This was my running 6.0 that was going to get swapped into my 87 V2500, but I think I've decided it's better as a daily, and the 87 needs something more like an 8.1 next year.

I'll get started on the 2013 teardown probably this weekend.

 

[Hunter79764]

Yeah, I got the Stage 1 L92. Now they only have the Stage2 VVT and it is a second Generation of that cam with more lift. They no longer offer a stage 1 version. I was very tempted to go with a non VVT version and convert to a 3 bolt cam gear.. hopefully I won't regret it.

Another thing I saw is that the .600 lift is within the range of the stock beehive springs, and I've seen several recommendations to just run the beehive springs instead of the dual springs with the higher pressures if you aren't spinning it up to high RPM's regularly. Since its a truck and tops out ~6500RPM.. I'm seriously considering swapping out the PAC dual springs for the beehives.

That's interesting on the stock springs. I might look closely at a new set of stock springs, and hang on to the stiff duals for another build in something less daily-driver... Especially if I have to replace the cam and go with a milder one.

 

[Bextreme04]

That's interesting on the stock springs. I might look closely at a new set of stock springs, and hang on to the stiff duals for another build in something less daily-driver... Especially if I have to replace the cam and go with a milder one.

I think the stock springs are only good to ~0.550. I said stock, but I meant the PAC or BTR beehive springs. They are good up to ~0.625 and are supposedly more reliable and longer lasting for a daily driven type of application.

https://briantooleyracing.com/btr-625-lift-beehive-valve-spring-kit-btr-sk018.html

 

[Bextreme04]

Not the update you're looking for, but it's the update I've got. Dad came in Friday afternoon (that's him standing in front of the finished truck), it rained all day Saturday, but Sunday evening by 11 it was 90% done and still ugly, but much less ugly. Still need to splice a trans cooler line, then refill all fluids and get it moved out and cleaned up from where it's sat for over a year. and eventually the hood gaps straightened out and a fresh coat of paint on the new/used hood and maybe the fender, but for now the paint was the same color code and the price was right. This was my running 6.0 that was going to get swapped into my 87 V2500, but I think I've decided it's better as a daily, and the 87 needs something more like an 8.1 next year.

I'll get started on the 2013 teardown probably this weekend.

Any update on this? I think I finally got enough stuff prepped and my 5.3 is getting super tired. We towed our trailer out to Newport for the first camping trip of the season and hot oil pressure at idle is dropping down under 20psi and never gets above 35-40 psi even at full tilt. Fresh oil and quality filter running 0w-40 Mobil 1 Synthetic... and it isn't normal for it to run this low. Usually stays ~40psi at idle and gets up closer to 60 at high RPM. I'm thinking its time to swap the motor out for the 6.2 this weekend before the weather gets any hotter or we end up wanting to do a longer camping trip.

 

[Hunter79764]

Sorry to say, no I don't. Have barely looked at it in the last few weeks, getting ready for a 2 week RV trip in the motorhome. When we get back in June, I'll start digging in to it. Mentally, I'm still going back to a lifter rotating from the plastic tray breaking, which might have happened when it was getting beat up from the rocker failing? If it is on cylinder 7 or 8, then I'll call it that. If it is anywhere else, then I'm in trouble.

Any experience with oil analysis? If I send in a sample, can they tell me if any metal (because I'm assuming there will be metal with the sound it was making) is from a lifter beating into the cam lobe vs any bearing material from something else tearing up?

 

[Bextreme04]

Sorry to say, no I don't. Have barely looked at it in the last few weeks, getting ready for a 2 week RV trip in the motorhome. When we get back in June, I'll start digging in to it. Mentally, I'm still going back to a lifter rotating from the plastic tray breaking, which might have happened when it was getting beat up from the rocker failing? If it is on cylinder 7 or 8, then I'll call it that. If it is anywhere else, then I'm in trouble.

Any experience with oil analysis? If I send in a sample, can they tell me if any metal (because I'm assuming there will be metal with the sound it was making) is from a lifter beating into the cam lobe vs any bearing material from something else tearing up?

Yeah, oil analysis will be able to tell if there is metal and what type, but really only matters if it’s small amounts and in the process of failing. I would drain the oil and cut the filter open. If a bearing spun or the cam got chewed up by a lifter spinning, you’ll be able to physically see it in the oil immediately. Bearing material will be non-ferrous and won’t get picked up by a magnet, cam or lifter material is billet steel and will be magnetic.

 

[Hunter79764]

Yeah, oil analysis will be able to tell if there is metal and what type, but really only matters if it’s small amounts and in the process of failing. I would drain the oil and cut the filter open. If a bearing spun or the cam got chewed up by a lifter spinning, you’ll be able to physically see it in the oil immediately. Bearing material will be non-ferrous and won’t get picked up by a magnet, cam or lifter material is billet steel and will be magnetic.

Good point, I didn't even think about the non-ferrous aspect. That'll be my first step when I start digging in. At this point, I'm hoping it is just the cam/lifter, and that no trash worked through the system to affect anything else. In the very short time of running after it started making noise, the oil pressure was still fine. But if I knew I had a bunch of bearing material, it might change my approach of trying to tear down in place vs removing for either a full rebuild, or a straight up replacement with something else. I'm not really in a position to do a full rebuild right now, and I don't know that I would want to pay a shop to do it either.

Fingers crossed it didn't get into bearings...

 

[Bextreme04]

Good point, I didn't even think about the non-ferrous aspect. That'll be my first step when I start digging in. At this point, I'm hoping it is just the cam/lifter, and that no trash worked through the system to affect anything else. In the very short time of running after it started making noise, the oil pressure was still fine. But if I knew I had a bunch of bearing material, it might change my approach of trying to tear down in place vs removing for either a full rebuild, or a straight up replacement with something else. I'm not really in a position to do a full rebuild right now, and I don't know that I would want to pay a shop to do it either.

Fingers crossed it didn't get into bearings...

Cam bearings are notorious for spinning in these motors. You wouldn't get your symptoms from that though. Honestly, you are worse off having metal from a cam/lifter failure going through the motor than you are a bearing issue. Also, if you are already pulling it down far enough to replace lifters and cam, you are right there to replace the cam bearings anyways.

Personally, if I knew that the tough parts were not stuck together on my rig(like exhaust bolts) I would just take the few hours to pull the whole motor out and flush it with soap/water if you find a bunch of metal of any kind in the oil. At that point, its only ~$150 tops for good quality bearings and then you know you aren't pumping glitter through the whole thing.

 

[Hunter79764]

Cam bearings are notorious for spinning in these motors. You wouldn't get your symptoms from that though. Honestly, you are worse off having metal from a cam/lifter failure going through the motor than you are a bearing issue. Also, if you are already pulling it down far enough to replace lifters and cam, you are right there to replace the cam bearings anyways.

Personally, if I knew that the tough parts were not stuck together on my rig(like exhaust bolts) I would just take the few hours to pull the whole motor out and flush it with soap/water if you find a bunch of metal of any kind in the oil. At that point, its only ~$150 tops for good quality bearings and then you know you aren't pumping glitter through the whole thing.

Ok, I'm showing my ignorance. If the engine is basically good (oil pressure was fine, assuming the cam lobe is wiped out), but had some trash through it, is it as simple as swapping bearings 1 for 1 and bolting back together, no machine shop or precision measuring required? I've torn into top end before, but never bottom end/bearings, I guess I'm a little scared of it.

 

[Bextreme04]

Ok, I'm showing my ignorance. If the engine is basically good (oil pressure was fine, assuming the cam lobe is wiped out), but had some trash through it, is it as simple as swapping bearings 1 for 1 and bolting back together, no machine shop or precision measuring required? I've torn into top end before, but never bottom end/bearings, I guess I'm a little scared of it.

Yep, no machine work necessary unless the bearing spun and tore up the block. Probably won't necessarily even need all new bearings unless you can see visible gouges, but it would be good to do an inspection and know for sure