700r4 Issues

[Splandman]

This is why I suggest to people, Suck it up, bite the bullet, spend the money to go 4L80-E and buy the stand alone adjustable controller and weld the phukin hood shut and be done with it. 4-5 transmissions in 2 years is ridiculous. And by the time you bought all the upgrades that a 700r4 you could damn near pay for the 4L80-E.

With that much torque and probably spinning some good rpms, you need the input shaft sleeved, billet super hold servos, smart shell, wider kevlar bands, boost valve in the pump etc etc, the list goes on. Sonnax makes all those parts and after all those upgrades, you've still got a 700r4. You know what you get when you put lipstick on a pig? It's still a pig, just a little prettier.

Just saying, consider spending the cash and go 4L80-E. I wish I was set up to work on transmissions or I'd have you bring me that 700r4 and we'd put some **** in it and make it better. You're not to far from me.

What you are saying here is the same thing Larry Wilson over in Moore told me yesterday. He seemed pretty honest. Said he would rather not build me a 700r4 and that I should go TH 400 or 4L80E. The shop that has been building them is A&A over in Yukon.

 

[HotRodPC]

I 100% agree with Mr Gutwrench.. with the right modifications & decent tranny guy, the 700R4s are reliable & almost bullet proof. I wish I knew a tranny guy out in your neck of the woods to recommend.

Welcome to GMSB Cuba. I see you're a new guy. Thanks for the input.

I'll agree, a 700r4 can be made to hold some power. Taking parts from later models, and even updates that are in 4L60-E's. MOST, and I say MOST of the upgrades a 700r4 needs are in the tunnel so many 4L60-E parts are backwards compatible to the 700r4. You just need a later model 4L60-E to get the hard parts needed, a 4L65-E even better like the 5 pinion planetaries which in IMO are a somewhat way overrated. How many 700r4's do you hear of breaking plantets? It's rare !! But nonetheless more is better if you get a REAL OEM GM 5 pinions planets and not some China **** that's weaker than the OEM 4 pinion planets that's in 700r4's and 4L60-E's. I'm close to him in OKC. Crescent isn't about 45 minutes to an hour away IIRC. Only thing I'll disagree with almost bullet proof. It's just not going to happen in a 700r4. Even with hardened shafts that are very expensive a 700r4. IMO, you can make a 700r4 reliable up to about 300ft lbs and 5000rpm. Past that, you may as well consider 4L80-E. I know you can build them for more, but I'm saying reliable. I've seen them raced at 500hp and 6500 rpms many times, but I've seen the same one explode with a pool of trans fluid and parts under the car at launch too. And that was actually a 4L65-E. Them 5 pinion planets really helped didn't they?

 

[HotRodPC]

What you are saying here is the same thing Larry Wilson over in Moore told me yesterday. He seemed pretty honest. Said he would rather not build me a 700r4 and that I should go TH 400 or 4L80E. The shop that has been building them is A&A over in Yukon.

DO NOT let Larry Wilson build you a 700r4. I know his builds, I've seen his builds, I've repaired his builds. My house I just lost was less than a mile from his shop. I've met the man twice, he does seem to be an honest guy. He's good at the Th350 and Th400's but forget the 700r4 with him. He's built some good race transmissions but that's about all he is, a race transmission builder and he only does GM RWD that I'm aware of. And I'd say, yes he was honest with your when he said he didn't want to build you a 700r4 cuz he can't build them for ****. Just sayin'. I've got references to back that up. He's even screwed one guy on warranty that I'm aware of. After the 3rd build in less than a year, the 4th time he told the guy he wasn't doing **** about it. The guy was left hanging with a broken transmission, and we're talking a stock OEM TBI pick up truck. Now if you can't build one to hold 165hp, you can't build one.

 

[Splandman]

Well it's back at A&A now. I am not going to give them any money. If they fix it under warranty I am just hoping it lasts long enough for me to save the money for the TCI 700r4 or the 4L80E. If they say it's not covered under warranty then I am just going to have to tow the truck from Yukon back to Crescent and park it in my shop for a while.

 

[HotRodPC]

I've been typing away and not reading all the responses by the time I post. But I see you've already had the discussion of the 4L80-E. You know you could do the Th400 real cheap in comparison. But if you drive this daily or often, you need the OD with the 4.10's and 33's. So don't cheap out on the Th400 just for the reliability. Hopefully this latest issue as an easy fix like a blown servo seal or cooling line. Makes we wonder if they did the mod to the pump for pushing out the front pump seal. That happens on older models and is common. You can drill a hole and make it bigger to give the volume but lower the pressure so you don't blow your front seal out. I don't know about A&A's work. Apparently it isn't all that good if you've let them do 4-5 in 2 years. But lets see what we can do to rectify the current problem, get your truck running again with the 700r4 but keep the 4L80-E and controller in mind and put some cash back for it in the future.

Hit up @1low4x4 about the 4L80-E and the difference and the controller that's adjustable. He had it going on with that truck until it got wrecked then he went to building a 4x4 and didn't use the 4L80-E. Maybe he still has it and the controller and it's low mileage. He didn't have it in there long when the truck got wrecked. He's in TX but it might be worth the drive if he still has it and will sell it.

 

[Cuba]

Welcome to GMSB Cuba. I see you're a new guy. Thanks for the input.

Yes, I'm the new girl. Have had my share of input in other forums... mostly a creeper in this one until recently. Lol

How many 700r4's do you hear of breaking plantets? It's rare !! But nonetheless more is better if you get a REAL OEM GM 5 pinions planets and not some China **** that's weaker than the OEM 4 pinion planets that's in 700r4's and 4L60-E's.

I agree the 5 planets is junk, over sold by unknowledgeable ppl. I've done TONS of research over the years solely on the 700R4... because I own 2. Have done work on both, and in fact in the middle of modifying one now. Shift correction kit for now, just to relieve the common issues, not for performance.

Only thing I'll disagree with almost bullet proof. It's just not going to happen in a 700r4. Even with hardened shafts that are very expensive a 700r4. IMO, you can make a 700r4 reliable up to about 300ft lbs and 5000rpm. Past that, you may as well consider 4L80-E. I know you can build them for more, but I'm saying reliable. I've seen them raced at 500hp and 6500 rpms many times, but I've seen the same one explode with a pool of trans fluid and parts under the car at launch too. And that was actually a 4L65-E. Them 5 pinion planets really helped didn't they?

That's fair. I say almost bullet proof because I'd never use for more than a DD... I'd definitely drive it within the specs given all day. Barely tap near 4500RPM, those days are only reserved for when I'm peeved for seconds at a time. Lol. So in my head, the OP said he wanted something reliable for DD... not a dragster. The occasional hauling, I'd just install the biggest cooler I can fit.

The 700R4 I prefer is the 2nd generation I'd say. They have the Aux. VB, and the 2nd least amount electronics. So far, I've have the least amount of issues with it over all.

These shops doing work on this particular trans... & not triple checking the TV cable are FOOLS & THIEVES!! This is one of the most important components on this trans! It's almost the MAIN controller & they're going to let it out the door without test driving & verifying operations. Like 74 Shortbed stated above. .. I would've shot myself.... or THEM.. by now with all that BS within such a short window!!

Rant over? Lol

 

[Splandman]

Shift correction kit for now, just to relieve the common issues, not for performance.

Is this due to shift points being off? Too early was a big problem on mine.

These shops doing work on this particular trans... & not triple checking the TV cable are FOOLS & THIEVES!!

Well the first one absolutely was. They even ended up on the local news on one of the "in your corner" deals. Apparently they had ripped off several people. I believe they did it on purpose because he tried to blame the trans builder. When I went to get the truck it only had 1st and 2nd so they had already burned it up. I limped it the 5 or 6 miles to the trans shop. He looks at it real quick and said, here's the issue. I was kind of shocked.

The second shop, the one that installed the Holley Sniper, is owned by one of the guys on the Street Outlaw show. I specifically used them because I assumed they would understand the performance crap since they build much nicer cars than what I drive. I had already read that the bracket for the Qjet would not work with the Sniper and I told them that. He said not to worry about it because they would fabricate anything they needed. Obviously they did not. It turns out that Holley did not send me the bracket like they were supposed to when they shipped the Sniper to me. I contacted them and they sent me the correct bracket but that was a bit late.

 

[HotRodPC]

Yes, I'm the new girl. Have had my share of input in other forums... mostly a creeper in this one until recently. Lol



I agree the 5 planets is junk, over sold by unknowledgeable ppl. I've done TONS of research over the years solely on the 700R4... because I own 2. Have done work on both, and in fact in the middle of modifying one now. Shift correction kit for now, just to relieve the common issues, not for performance.




That's fair. I say almost bullet proof because I'd never use for more than a DD... I'd definitely drive it within the specs given all day. Barely tap near 4500RPM, those days are only reserved for when I'm peeved for seconds at a time. Lol. So in my head, the OP said he wanted something reliable for DD... not a dragster. The occasional hauling, I'd just install the biggest cooler I can fit.

The 700R4 I prefer is the 2nd generation I'd say. They have the Aux. VB, and the 2nd least amount electronics. So far, I've have the least amount of issues with it over all.

These shops doing work on this particular trans... & not triple checking the TV cable are FOOLS & THIEVES!! This is one of the most important components on this trans! It's almost the MAIN controller & they're going to let it out the door without test driving & verifying operations. Like 74 Shortbed stated above. .. I would've shot myself.... or THEM.. by now with all that BS within such a short window!!

Rant over? Lol

Cool, we've got another female on board. You know a few have come but they don't last long. We're guys around here and just to be honest, it's more like dudes hanging out in the garage so they usually don't stay. However, if you can tough it out and tolerate the guy ******** immaturity and horseplay, we'd sure like to keep you around. Especially if you know your ****. And I'll agree with all of the above in this post.

You're right about the Aux VB. That started in 87 and 88 and above have other upgrades too with things like the abuse valve, and why I asked him what year is his 700r4. I know he said DD and not a dragster but he did say 450hp 450ft lb or torque, now c'mon girl, if you got that kind of torque, don't tell me you're not gonna have the skinny pedal on the floor from time to time, and 450ft lbs, isn't no grocery gitter !!! And for sure, the #1 killer on the 700r4 and the 3/4 clutch pack is heat so even for a DD, gotta add a cooler IMO without bypassing the radiator cooler but as an added cooler.

 

[HotRodPC]

Is this due to shift points being off? Too early was a big problem on mine.



Well the first one absolutely was. They even ended up on the local news on one of the "in your corner" deals. Apparently they had ripped off several people. I believe they did it on purpose because he tried to blame the trans builder. When I went to get the truck it only had 1st and 2nd so they had already burned it up. I limped it the 5 or 6 miles to the trans shop. He looks at it real quick and said, here's the issue. I was kind of shocked.

The second shop, the one that installed the Holley Sniper, is owned by one of the guys on the Street Outlaw show. I specifically used them because I assumed they would understand the performance crap since they build much nicer cars than what I drive. I had already read that the bracket for the Qjet would not work with the Sniper and I told them that. He said not to worry about it because they would fabricate anything they needed. Obviously they did not. It turns out that Holley did not send me the bracket like they were supposed to when they shipped the Sniper to me. I contacted them and they sent me the correct bracket but that was a bit late.

I'm curious which one of the Street Outlaw guys shops installed the Holly Sniper. Being a tow driver I've dropped cars at about all of their shops, some of them multiple times.

If your shift points are off, ESPECIALLY IF TO EARLY on a 700r4. STOP !!! Or drive very light throttle. No jack rabbit starts etc. Slow take offs, gradually build your speed etc. Reason being, if it's shifting to early that's a sign that the cable it to loose and not going to have the fluid pressure to hold the clutch packs tight enough and they'll slip create heat and BAM, short lived transmission due to slippage and heat.

Just so you know, the TV cable is very very critical on a 700r4. It not only determines shift points with help of the governor, it regulates fluid pressure. So when you do a jack rabbit take off at about 3/4 throttle, you need the cable to tell the transmission to hold them clutch packs tight, we're getting on it so raise the fluid pressure. If you're not telling the transmission this is going on via TV cable, it just thinks you're taking a grandpa light throttle take off and will not increase fluid pressure and it'll shift early thinking you're just on a nice gentle Sunday cruise. It needs to be adjusted right but if it has to be off, at least have it a bit tight and shifting a bit late, and if that's the case, it's to tight and shifting late it'll shift hard too. Best to have it right or it'll kill your transmission. Very Critical on a 700r4 due to the fluid pressure regulation. This is why the 700r4 cable is called a Throttle Valve (TV) cable instead of a Detent cable on a Th350 which is mistakenly called a Kickdown Cable which is a ******** Ford terminology thing that is actually a rod not a cable. So there is your education for the day.

Find this leak and do let us know what year transmission you have. The year does make a difference on what mods need to be done. It may have puked out the front seal, there is a fix for that, but you'll have to pull the front pump to do it.

 

[Fastereddie]

Sonnax smart tech input drum...

 

[Cuba]

Is this due to shift points being off? Too early was a big problem on mine.

Actually that's not exactly this kit is for... but in your case a combination of TV cable misadjusment, possible stuck TV valve in the VB, and the wrong weights or springs in the governor...

I'm no builder by trade, although have been tinkering and modifying a few lately, I just know quite a lot about this trans and will be overhauling one soon. I've been studying these for at least 5 years to prepare. Of course, every builder has their opinion on certain things, so this is why I've also been studying for so long.

This kit I'm installing does correct the TV valve from sticking, allows for more lubrication to parts of the trans that normally didn't get any until getting on it, firms up a couple of the shifts, addresses the governor, it does touch on early/late shifts, no lockup or lockup too early, 3-4 clutch failure, 4th too early, 2-3 cutloose or clang, Reverse delay when hot, Reverse clutch failures, Falls out of 4th, downshift clunks to name most of what this one does. This is the TransGo SK700... the bigger kit because they also make a smaller one.
These mods are being done while trans is in the vehicle... in fact the other 700R4 mods were all in the vehicles. I just removed the pan and valve body.

I agree with HotRod, a not so common anymore problem was the front bushing and seal walking out... that's for sure going to spill tons of fluid in one shot... or a cooler line like also mentioned. But these are once again leading back to rookie mistakes, or overlooks.

 

[HotRodPC]

I agree the 5 planets is junk, over sold by unknowledgeable ppl. I've done TONS of research over the years solely on the 700R4... because I own 2. Have done work on both, and in fact in the middle of modifying one now. Shift correction kit for now, just to relieve the common issues, not for performance.


l

Which shift correction kit are you using? TransGo Jr seems to be a good one for DD.

 

[Cuba]

Which shift correction kit are you using? TransGo Jr seems to be a good one for DD.

Yes, that's what all my prior mods were the JR... or SK700-Jr... it's economical and does still touch on his specific problems... quite simple to do himself even. Done in a day with taking his time.

The one I'm in the middle of now is the bigger one... But the Jr has done me well with used trannys in the past... they work

 

[HotRodPC]

Yes, that's what all my pripor mods were the JR... or SK700-Jr... it's economical and does still touch on his specific problems... quite simple to do himself even. Done in a day with taking his time.

That's the one. The SK-700 Jr. It corrects several issues.

 

[HotRodPC]

The only other thing I wish the Jr kit had was the .500 boost valve. I don't think they put it in the kit because they want it to be a kit that can be installed wo removing the transmission. The pump has to come out for the boost valve.