what kind of oil?
- Thread starter brsslam
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chengny
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IMHO
Hands down - the best oil value is:
Shell Rotella® T Triple Protection® 15W-40 Diesel Engine Oil
High (1400 ppm IIRC) ZDDP concentration and available at the big warehouse stores for really low money. Walmart sells a 5 gallon bucket for $70. That's 4 oil changes for $70 = $17.50 per change. Disregard the "Diesel Engine" designation that only means it can be used in diesels - it is also universally approved for gasoline engines.
Second place is Mobil 1 15W-50:
Also has a high ZDDP concentration (1300 ppm of zinc). And again if purchased at the big box stores it is a real good deal. Last time I bought a couple of 5 quart bottles I paid $24 and change. Not as reasonable as Rotella T but you can run the Mobil 1 much longer without being concerned about breakdown/contamination. Matter of fact - if you do the math (and run Mobil 1 twice as long as Rotella T), it is actually cheaper.
Hands down - the best oil value is:
Shell Rotella® T Triple Protection® 15W-40 Diesel Engine Oil
High (1400 ppm IIRC) ZDDP concentration and available at the big warehouse stores for really low money. Walmart sells a 5 gallon bucket for $70. That's 4 oil changes for $70 = $17.50 per change. Disregard the "Diesel Engine" designation that only means it can be used in diesels - it is also universally approved for gasoline engines.
Second place is Mobil 1 15W-50:
Also has a high ZDDP concentration (1300 ppm of zinc). And again if purchased at the big box stores it is a real good deal. Last time I bought a couple of 5 quart bottles I paid $24 and change. Not as reasonable as Rotella T but you can run the Mobil 1 much longer without being concerned about breakdown/contamination. Matter of fact - if you do the math (and run Mobil 1 twice as long as Rotella T), it is actually cheaper.
79K10
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motor oil is what i usually use lol
Skweegle89
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Just out of curiosity, what is it about these older engines that requires all that zddp? I have never heard anybody reference it when talking about newer motors.
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350runner
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The cam and lifter mating surface. New vehicles have roller lifters and cams... that virtually eliminated all cam lobe and lifter wear.
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Skweegle89
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Thanks. I have been curious about that for some time.
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chengny
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It's all about the cam lobe/valve actuating device interface:
As opposed to older engines which use flat tappet valve lifters, newer motors have roller type cam followers that ride smoothly along the cam contour with virtually no friction.
A conventional hydraulic lifter, on the other hand, is essentially just a piece of steel being jammed up against valve spring pressure by another piece of steel (the cam lobe). The interface between the base of the lifter and the cam lobe is a harsh environment.
Motor oil is designed to develop a film or cushion between these two surfaces - to prevent metal-to-metal contact from ever happening. But that is in a perfect world.
In reality metal-to-metal does occur sometimes and degradation of the bearing surface. Zinc was added to lube oil because of it's ability to migrate to and re-coat these abraded surfaces.
It worked great and everything was wonderful - until about 1975. That was the year that the EPA dictated that automobiles be equipped with catalytic converters. For a while things were still great but after a couple of years it became apparent that the cats were becoming fouled/plugged with some substance that was coming out of the engine. Turned out to be the zinc additive in the lube oil and zinc levels in motor oil started dropping.
So now, if you you have a flat tappet type engine, it is important to be aware of the zinc content in the motor oil you use.
As opposed to older engines which use flat tappet valve lifters, newer motors have roller type cam followers that ride smoothly along the cam contour with virtually no friction.
A conventional hydraulic lifter, on the other hand, is essentially just a piece of steel being jammed up against valve spring pressure by another piece of steel (the cam lobe). The interface between the base of the lifter and the cam lobe is a harsh environment.
Motor oil is designed to develop a film or cushion between these two surfaces - to prevent metal-to-metal contact from ever happening. But that is in a perfect world.
In reality metal-to-metal does occur sometimes and degradation of the bearing surface. Zinc was added to lube oil because of it's ability to migrate to and re-coat these abraded surfaces.
It worked great and everything was wonderful - until about 1975. That was the year that the EPA dictated that automobiles be equipped with catalytic converters. For a while things were still great but after a couple of years it became apparent that the cats were becoming fouled/plugged with some substance that was coming out of the engine. Turned out to be the zinc additive in the lube oil and zinc levels in motor oil started dropping.
So now, if you you have a flat tappet type engine, it is important to be aware of the zinc content in the motor oil you use.
Skweegle89
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What about synthetics? I'm about to have a new crate motor to drop in my truck and thought about just going synthetic right from the start.
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chengny
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Mobil 1 is a synthetic - and the 15W-50 has about as much zinc as Shell's Rotella T 15W-40.
One caveat on the use of Mobil 1 from day one:
I've never had a crate engine but I imagine that - just like any other engine - the the cam/lifters will need to go through the standard break-in process before it is put into normal use.
If that is the case, it is strongly recommended (by people more knowledgeable than I) that you do not use synthetic oil of any type during the break-in period.
I never really took the time to understand why the use of synthetic oil during break - in is considered to be such bad practice. My standard procedure has always been to use Rotella T for the first two oil changes and only then do I switch to Mobil 1 - so I never really researched the issue. The only thing I know it that synthetic oil is reputed to be too "slippery" (their term not mine).
But other than during the break-in period, there is general consensus that for flat tappet applications - Mobil 1/synthetic oil is fine.
From an article I have kept on file (see trap #4):
COMMON MISTAKES OF USING SYNTHETIC OIL
Wanna start an argument? Just start talking about synthetic motor oils with a group of racers. You are sure to hear both testimonies and horror stories. “Synthetic oil saved my engine,” says the evangelist. “Synthetic oil blew my motor up,” says the skeptic. But who is right?
The reality is that, when properly used, synthetic oil does outperform conventional oil. The key phrase is “when properly used”.
When choosing and using motor oil, here are 4 traps to avoid in order to get the maximum performance from your engine and your oil.
1st Trap – Viscosity
Just like location is the most important principle in real estate, viscosity is the most important principle in lubrication. Unfortunately, all oils get thinner as they get hotter. This loss of viscosity with increasing temperature is measured in Viscosity Index. The higher the Viscosity
Index on an oil, the less viscosity it loses as temperature increases. Synthetic oils feature a higher Viscosity Index compared to conventional oils, and that can allow you to run a lower viscosity grade synthetic. For example, you can switch from a low viscosity index conventional 20W-
50 to a high viscosity index synthetic 10W-40, but the oil clearances in the engine must be tight enough. At .001 oil clearance per inch of journal diameter, most racing engines can run a high viscosity index, synthetic 10W-30.
Using too thin of an oil with loose clearances will result in rod bearing failure.
2nd Trap – Oil Change Interval
Or should we say lack of change? A common mistake when using synthetic oil is running the oil too long. Yes, synthetic oil can go longer between oil changes than conventional oil, but dirty oil is bad for your engine. Keeping the dirt and fuel out of the oil is the key to realizing longer oil life. Frequent filter changes will keep your oil cleaner, and clean synthetic oil will last longer than conventional oil. The key is the frequent filter changes. This method not only saves money on oil purchases in the long run (using less oil), it also extends engine life because high quality, clean oil lubricates better.
3rd Trap – Don’t Play Chemist
If you feel like your oil needs a bottle of additive to help it perform, then you need to get a better oil. “Miracle Molecules” in a bottle may sound great, but unless you are a chemist, you may do more harm than good.
Motor oils are complex blends of base oils and additives. Oil formulators carefully select base oils and additives so they all work together. When you add a bottle of additive, that “balance” is altered. In some cases, the change is beneficial – “I used XYZ additive, and I gained 5 hp.” In other cases, the change is detrimental – “I used XYZ additive, and I lost 5 bearings!”
The difference is in how the bottle of additive reacts with the additives already in the motor oil. A good reaction yields favorable results. A bad reaction…
4th Trap – First Things First
An engine needs to be properly broken-in before using synthetic oil. A high zinc, conventional oil is recommended to break-in the cam, lifters and piston rings. Not all break-in oils are the same. Choose a break-in oil that does not contain Molybdenum or other friction modifiers.
These additives can slow down the time it takes for the rings to seat. High zinc, low detergent and no friction modifiers is the best way to break-in a new or re-built engine and get it ready for synthetic oil.
Because synthetic oils provide performance advantages over mineral oils, avoiding these 4 traps will enable you to get maximum performance, protection and value from your engine and your oil. Following these recommendations allow racers to make more horsepower, save money on oil purchases and save money on engine rebuilds.
One caveat on the use of Mobil 1 from day one:
I've never had a crate engine but I imagine that - just like any other engine - the the cam/lifters will need to go through the standard break-in process before it is put into normal use.
If that is the case, it is strongly recommended (by people more knowledgeable than I) that you do not use synthetic oil of any type during the break-in period.
I never really took the time to understand why the use of synthetic oil during break - in is considered to be such bad practice. My standard procedure has always been to use Rotella T for the first two oil changes and only then do I switch to Mobil 1 - so I never really researched the issue. The only thing I know it that synthetic oil is reputed to be too "slippery" (their term not mine).
But other than during the break-in period, there is general consensus that for flat tappet applications - Mobil 1/synthetic oil is fine.
From an article I have kept on file (see trap #4):
COMMON MISTAKES OF USING SYNTHETIC OIL
Wanna start an argument? Just start talking about synthetic motor oils with a group of racers. You are sure to hear both testimonies and horror stories. “Synthetic oil saved my engine,” says the evangelist. “Synthetic oil blew my motor up,” says the skeptic. But who is right?
The reality is that, when properly used, synthetic oil does outperform conventional oil. The key phrase is “when properly used”.
When choosing and using motor oil, here are 4 traps to avoid in order to get the maximum performance from your engine and your oil.
1st Trap – Viscosity
Just like location is the most important principle in real estate, viscosity is the most important principle in lubrication. Unfortunately, all oils get thinner as they get hotter. This loss of viscosity with increasing temperature is measured in Viscosity Index. The higher the Viscosity
Index on an oil, the less viscosity it loses as temperature increases. Synthetic oils feature a higher Viscosity Index compared to conventional oils, and that can allow you to run a lower viscosity grade synthetic. For example, you can switch from a low viscosity index conventional 20W-
50 to a high viscosity index synthetic 10W-40, but the oil clearances in the engine must be tight enough. At .001 oil clearance per inch of journal diameter, most racing engines can run a high viscosity index, synthetic 10W-30.
Using too thin of an oil with loose clearances will result in rod bearing failure.
2nd Trap – Oil Change Interval
Or should we say lack of change? A common mistake when using synthetic oil is running the oil too long. Yes, synthetic oil can go longer between oil changes than conventional oil, but dirty oil is bad for your engine. Keeping the dirt and fuel out of the oil is the key to realizing longer oil life. Frequent filter changes will keep your oil cleaner, and clean synthetic oil will last longer than conventional oil. The key is the frequent filter changes. This method not only saves money on oil purchases in the long run (using less oil), it also extends engine life because high quality, clean oil lubricates better.
3rd Trap – Don’t Play Chemist
If you feel like your oil needs a bottle of additive to help it perform, then you need to get a better oil. “Miracle Molecules” in a bottle may sound great, but unless you are a chemist, you may do more harm than good.
Motor oils are complex blends of base oils and additives. Oil formulators carefully select base oils and additives so they all work together. When you add a bottle of additive, that “balance” is altered. In some cases, the change is beneficial – “I used XYZ additive, and I gained 5 hp.” In other cases, the change is detrimental – “I used XYZ additive, and I lost 5 bearings!”
The difference is in how the bottle of additive reacts with the additives already in the motor oil. A good reaction yields favorable results. A bad reaction…
4th Trap – First Things First
An engine needs to be properly broken-in before using synthetic oil. A high zinc, conventional oil is recommended to break-in the cam, lifters and piston rings. Not all break-in oils are the same. Choose a break-in oil that does not contain Molybdenum or other friction modifiers.
These additives can slow down the time it takes for the rings to seat. High zinc, low detergent and no friction modifiers is the best way to break-in a new or re-built engine and get it ready for synthetic oil.
Because synthetic oils provide performance advantages over mineral oils, avoiding these 4 traps will enable you to get maximum performance, protection and value from your engine and your oil. Following these recommendations allow racers to make more horsepower, save money on oil purchases and save money on engine rebuilds.
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