Steering issue

[Camar068]

Sorry forgot to mention 86 K10. Anyway,I had an issue where the vehicle stopped turning as I turned the wheel....then it magically "caught up" with my turning of the wheel it didn't respond to. This happened yesterday. I thought, no way that isn't the steering box, everything else is tight.

I changed the box today with a reman, now I have to bump from about 11 oclock to 1-2 oclock before it responds.

While changing the box, the pitman arm came off very easy. Was very difficult to get back on the new.

After troubleshooting the play in the wheel, we noticed the pitman arm pivoting up/down on the gear box shaft.

1. Bad pitman arm?
2. Should a new/reman steering gear require adjustment out of the box?

Video might help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E97YMjREeCw&feature=youtu.be

 

[Camar068]

Decided to take friday off and take it to a different shop than I normally use. Just double checked for play at components and cant see anything....even shook the crap out of them with no play found. I'll try and remember to post results.

 

[jetman]

I have changed out almost EVERY moving part in the front end of my K10. My truck has wandered all over the road since the day I bought it. Bought an AC Delco re-manufactured power steering box today, will put it in tomorrow. If anyone has any insight in getting these 4x4 trucks to steer/corner I am all ears....

 

[Camar068]

I've done the jeep steering shaft mod and added the frame support to eliminate flex. Both made a difference.

I've got the chiltons manual for this thing and they call it a pitman arm for the k10. Checked autozone and orreilys (in store) and the previous as well as advanced auto, rock auto, and napa online and no pitman arm. It's like it doesn't exist! Classic industries even shows it in a picture.....do they have one.....no.

Good grief if that's my issue I'll have better luck shittin one than finding one that exists.

 

[chengny]

I downloaded your video and and watched it at several different speeds and zoom levels. I noticed a couple of things. They're both related to the fact that the pitman shaft is not properly locked to the arm:

1. There is a noticeable degree of lost motion whenever the steering is reversed. When the shaft stops and then begins to move in the opposite direction, it takes a few degrees of travel before the arm reacts and begins to move with it. The splined joint should be tight enough to prevent any lost motion at all.

2. The shaft is also moving axially within the splines of the arm. It might just be the lighting or the camera, but the relative motion between the arm/shaft in the axial direction looks really bad. To make matters worse, the shaft doesn't just move up and down within the splines of the arm - it appears to be able to rock back and forth in it.

Also, and I can't be sure because of the proximity of the camera to the gear, but it appears that either:

1. The steering gear is not securely mounted to the frame rail and is moving in relation to it.

2. The steel frame is cracked somewhere. So even though the gears are firmly mounted, they are unstable due to an excessive amount torsional flex allowed by the frame rail itself.


This is from a TSB specifically for 1985-86 K10's

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I just watched that clip again and I can't believe that you don't see how much the arm and shaft are moving in relation to each other. It might be a good idea to not drive that truck until you get that pitman arm properly clamped to the shaft. I'm not being a jerk , I just hate to see you eat a brand new steering gear set. If the splines get stripped and you try to return it...it would be a tough sell to say it was defective. I believe the pitman arm is made of hardened steel and it's splines are designed to be stronger than those on the shaft - so that the shaft splines fail first.

 

[jetman]

Getting ready to go change out my steering box. If you check around some of the junk yards I am sure you will be able to get your hands on another pitman arm, they normally seem to have a pretty tight fit, I've thrown several away thinking I would never need them..

 

[jetman]

Installed the AC Delco remanufactured steering gear. To answer your question regarding adjusting a remanufactured gear, don't think that should be necessary. This reman'd gear box had the two adjustment points tagged with a line of paint to make it very evident if anyone had tinkered with it after it left the reman shop.
Found two (2) issues with my old box. Firstly when I had installed that used box off a donor truck I failed to adequately torque the 4 mounting bolts and also did not install locking washers. Box was moving slightly..
Secondly the old box was totally worn out.

New AC Delco box (fr Rock Auto $104 + shipping) working nicely. Steering much "stiffer" than before. Movin some big RV's this weekend, hopefully truck will be a lot more stable.

 

[chengny]

I've got the chiltons manual for this thing and they call it a pitman arm for the k10. Checked autozone and orreilys (in store) and the previous as well as advanced auto, rock auto, and napa online and no pitman arm. It's like it doesn't exist! Classic industries even shows it in a picture.....do they have one.....no.

You are right. That's the pitman arm - used only in 4WD applications. The same part was used across all the weight ratings for the 1985-86 K series. Your K10 vs my K30:

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It is GM part 14044660:

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Good grief if that's my issue I'll have better luck shittin one than finding one that exists.

Buy it now - $160

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-OEM-Stee...ash=item5d62c961de:g:fhcAAOSwgQ9V6OAr&vxp=mtr

Buy it now - $202

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-OEM-Stee...ash=item23646d0a61:g:USMAAOSwv9hW4kRT&vxp=mtr


But consider this; every single light-duty 4WD truck that GM produced from 1985 -1986, had one of these installed. The junkyards may not be as fat with these trucks as they once were, but I bet your local yard probably has at least 10 of them. I am sure you could pull one in less than an hour and be gone. And it should be wicked cheap - if they want more than $15, tell 'em to stick it up their ass and move on.

But before you buy an arm off ebay (or even go through the hassle of pulling one at the junkyard), look closely at the splines on the one you have now. You might very well find that they are perfect.

Like I said, the material used to make the arm is hardened steel and is much stronger than the splines on the shaft. So the external shaft splines will fail before the internal arm splines. They may not have been designed that way on purpose, but because the arm is forged and the shaft must be machined - that's the way it worked out. What are you torquing the arm's clamp bolt to? I don't have the value in front of me right now, but it's pretty high - something like maybe 90 -100 ft-lbs.

 

[highdesertrange]

the pitman arm is loose and so is the tie rod end on the drag link. highdesertranger

 

[Camar068]

I just watched that clip again and I can't believe that you don't see how much the arm and shaft are moving in relation to each other. It might be a good idea to not drive that truck until you get that pitman arm properly clamped to the shaft. I'm not being a jerk , I just hate to see you eat a brand new steering gear set. If the splines get stripped and you try to return it...it would be a tough sell to say it was defective. I believe the pitman arm is made of hardened steel and it's splines are designed to be stronger than those on the shaft - so that the shaft splines fail first.

I didn't notice it either, poor lighting and watching the up/down movement of the pitman arm. Glad you said something, it was loose. During the install, I got it tight as I could and asked my bud to crank it down further cuz he's got more arm strength than I have. I put the "muscle" bar to it tonight and don't notice the movement you mentioned. I'll look at it further in the day light before I take it to a shop for a double check and alignment check.

The drag link arm is horizontal. The whole situation is very scary, wish there was a bolt going through both so it couldn't fall off. LOL no there wasn't beer involved during the install, so I can't blame that.

Edit: Thought about it after I posted above, for it to fall off, the bolt would have to fall out for it to come off.

I'll check the tie rod ends as well, Thanks HighDesert

 

[Camar068]

Ok, this issue disappeared....? The issue being darting to left and right and toe changing by ~5 turns (comes and goes....sometimes it will show, and sometimes it won't). Since my last post, I've changed the leaf spring bushings and had the passenger ball joints replaced (although they weren't bad but did have some play), and did a warranty exchange on the steering gear and changed it out.

Also, the pitman arm vertical movement has been resolved.

After each step I had the same issue, but had the best results after the steering gear the 2nd time. But the issue was still there....just not as dangerous feeling when I drove it. I did notice it wanted to pull to the left while the steering wheel was straight. For giggles I threw it in 4 wheel drive, the front seem to wobble (like an egg shaped axle) until I got past say 5 MPH. I pulled it out of 4WD and the pull is gone!? No clue. After the 4wd test, the wheel is turned to the left ~1/16th of a turn.

I'll check the fluids in the axle and transfer case.

Parts that have been replaced during all this:

-passenger ball joints (driver side replaced 1 year ago....although cheaper than moog)
-tie rod ends (not including the big adjusting sleeve)
-drag link assembly
-steering gear (twice)
-removed sway bar (will be installing since I didn't notice a change...new bushings of course ((lol only 2 bolts are a biatch))
-flushed power steering pump
-leaf spring bushings

I'll check the fluid in the axle and transfer case today. Couple questions to eliminate suggestions from shops/parts houses:

1 - could a bad steering stabilizer/damper cause darting?
2 - Whats the difference between the outer tie rod adjustment "pipe" and a long tie rod for the drivers side with a small adjustment sleeve between the 2? Locally I can only get the long tie rod, I don't care to change it, but it doesn't look as "beafy" as the large "pipe" adjusting sleeve.

Thanks In Advance guys, We are so close to figuring this nightmare out. I've got a feeling I still have an issue because of the "wobble" and the original issue disappearing.

 

[Camar068]

One thing i forgot to mention. After replacing the engine in Feb, the trans went out. I took the truck to a shop to have it rebuilt. Might be on to something there.

 

[Camar068]

after some thought, I think it's the axle universal joints hung up or wore out a bit.

 

[Camar068]

Not sure if the darting issue is resolved, will update in time. Wobble turned out to be the drivers side axle u-joint, one axis was almost locked.

When I checked the differential fluid, it didn't look too pretty so I'll be changing/cleaning that up as well as flushing the power steering fluid this weekend (looked worse than the diff. fluid).

Sway bar is re-installed. The hardest part was getting the "burnt" rubber out so the new ones would fit in. Small wire brush on a drill took care of that. Those 2 biatch bolts were actually pretty tame. Helps that I didn't use a swivel. One side I used a deep well, the other I used a standard socket with short extension. It was so easy I was cussin myself for not thinking of it when I took it off.

Regarding the pitman arm removal, both times mine practically fell off. I keep seeing posts stating that it's a pain to get back on.

Take your tie rod remover, lay pitman arm on a flat surface. Then flip it over and do it again. Slides on very easy by hand. I did mine on the concrete floor, as soon as I heard the tie rod remover tip hit concrete I stopped.

 

[87scotty]

When was your last alignment and what shape is tires in