Rebuilding / refurbing a Saginaw Gearbox

[Doppleganger]

This is more like a refurb. Mine is fine and has decent miles, but leaks at every seal and orifice. I got the Gates kit for it with all new seals, gaskets, snap rings, etc. What I drained out of it looked like burnt coffee and smelled like ass.

When I re-assemble it, whats a decent lube on the moving parts (til its full of oil again) - I have some Mobil 1 synthetic grease I've used in motors or oil pumps - that ok? Also - is there a synthetic gear oil that can be used in them?

Stupid questions but I never messed with one before so not sure if there's any caveats to know.

THX

 

[Keith Seymore]

You'll need to reset the preload and overcenter torques, ideally with the gear on the workbench/ in a vise.

The process is covered in the unit repair manual, but basically you set the "preload" by adjusting the big nut until it takes 10-12 in lbs to rotate the input shaft, and adjust the small set screw/lock nut until it takes 18-20 in lbs with gear on center.

K

 

[Doppleganger]

What about lube and oils?

 

[shiftpro]

What about lube and oils?

Wring out your dick...

Any grease will work for assembly, don't sweat it. Any gear oil whatever the weight recommended by NP. This is a place I like to splurge on Royal Purple synthetic.

Some years ago a buddy was wheeling and his newly rebuild 205 never got the drain plug tightened and fortunately the oil leak was spotted. By them it was about empty. The group he was with had some auto tranny oil and one guy had a can of either STP or Morley's, thick sticky stuff. They filled the case with this (mostly auto tranny oil) and then he forgot to change it back to a better oil until like a year later. Anyway, truck has been in service for years now and these trail fix oils certainly didn't seem to hurt anything, even for a year. The aluminum 208 required auto tranny oil.

 

[fast68chevy]

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

just basic assembly lube for bearings is fine, dont really need anything at all actually, the hydraulic oil fro the pump will get into the box basically immediately.. youre worrrying about minor details wayy too much on something that doesnt need.. and thes boxes are easy to replae all the seals in... and the seal kits are dirt cvheap too,, i just did my 1975 p/s one literally about a month ago,, fill sytem with new AW type hydraulic oil. low viscosity AW32 if youre in high temp region. or higher/more viscosity if are in hot climate,
i run AW46 because it is both super cold here well below freezing for many months and also super hot in summer months 90 to 100 or more... so...

and lmao @ shiftpro hahaah that first line in your reply comment hahhaahahaa rofl... you cna literally run any oil etc that wont foam up. i have run anything form motor oil to tranny fluod to tractor fluid in these old saginaw box hydraulic systems and they always work great fine no isssues no overheating or foaming anyth\ng at all ever... i would not run the cheap over the counter crappy thin p/s fluid though.. its all total junk and garbage.. its just poorer quality and sludges/gets dirty nasty and wears/thins out pretty quickly.. how much sludge junk particles metal on the magnet inside the reservoir housing of the pump will tell you how its been doing.,.,


you really want to run actual AW type hydraulic oil.. if at all possible.. and it is cheap and dirt comon at any farm/tractor etc supplies store anywhere.

 

[Doppleganger]

Maybe I screwed up here and described the wrong component. I have a new PS pump because I'm going serpentine.

This is what I'm going to overhaul.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[shiftpro]

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

just basic assembly lube for bearings is fine, dont really need anything at all actually, the hydraulic oil fro the pump will get into the box basically immediately.. youre worrrying about minor details wayy too much on something that doesnt need.. and thes boxes are easy to replae all the seals in... and the seal kits are dirt cvheap too,, i just did my 1975 p/s one literally about a month ago,, fill sytem with new AW type hydraulic oil. low viscosity AW32 if youre in high temp region. or higher/more viscosity if are in hot climate,
i run AW46 because it is both super cold here well below freezing for many months and also super hot in summer months 90 to 100 or more... so...

and lmao @ shiftpro hahaah that first line in your reply comment hahhaahahaa rofl... you cna literally run any oil etc that wont foam up. i have run anything form motor oil to tranny fluod to tractor fluid in these old saginaw box hydraulic systems and they always work great fine no isssues no overheating or foaming anyth\ng at all ever... i would not run the cheap over the counter crappy thin p/s fluid though.. its all total junk and garbage.. its just poorer quality and sludges/gets dirty nasty and wears/thins out pretty quickly.. how much sludge junk particles metal on the magnet inside the reservoir housing of the pump will tell you how its been doing.,.,


you really want to run actual AW type hydraulic oil.. if at all possible.. and it is cheap and dirt comon at any farm/tractor etc supplies store anywhere.

Good advice here but he said a Sag GEARBOX... I don't think he meant a power steering pump.
When I rebuild these hydro pumps I will use some grease to hold the vanes in place, because nothing sucks more than tightening the belt when you notice one stray vane sitting on the work bench.

 

[shiftpro]

Maybe I screwed up here and described the wrong component. I have a new PS pump because I'm going serpentine.

This is what I'm going to overhaul.

You must be registered for see images attach

Well for **** sakes you guys, make up your mind. I was wondering what tranny or transfer case might have been made by Sag.. so my oil advice doesn't work.

I have NEW advice! As Fast68 was saying, any oil that doesn't foam will work... but...BUT... if you use for example tranny fluid you will **** your pants trying to bleed it. It will foam up and then you need to shut it down for a few hours for the foam to subside. A functioning ps pump will take the tranny oil without issues but as I pointed out, if it foams while bleeding it you will not be happy.

Don't even start the engine before you do this, with wheels off the ground and the engine OFF, rotate steering wheel back and forth to the stops for oh, about ten minutes to get the air out. remember to top off the resi. Once you get that done and start the truck, continue going from one stop to the next as you did with the engine off.

 

[Doppleganger]

Time to pick open an old wound.....

For self torture, I tried shoving bamboo sticks under my fingernails, but couldn't get them in so decided to do the next best thing and start disassembling my Saginaw box instead. This is one of the best vids I found on it, although its not the exact one I have. Guess I'll pull a Ted Kennedy and just drive off that bridge when I come to it.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He starts by marking the inner nut, jamb nut and casting so to be able to return it to its original torque. The rest of it is pretty self explanatory. My question is: how did the factory do these in a mass production sort of way? Wasn't like they had a steering setup to test every one of them on. Is there a spec torque to tighten these things to?

Anyone know where I can find a pdf of the repair manual on this?

THX

 

[PrairieDrifter]

Time to pick open an old wound.....

For self torture, I tried shoving bamboo sticks under my fingernails, but couldn't get them in so decided to do the next best thing and start disassembling my Saginaw box instead. This is one of the best vids I found on it, although its not the exact one I have. Guess I'll pull a Ted Kennedy and just drive off that bridge when I come to it.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He starts by marking the inner nut, jamb nut and casting so to be able to return it to its original torque. The rest of it is pretty self explanatory. My question is: how did the factory do these in a mass production sort of way? Wasn't like they had a steering setup to test every one of them on. Is there a spec torque to tighten these things to?

Anyone know where I can find a pdf of the repair manual on this?

THX

Bleepin jeep is a smart dude. I imagine there was a torque spec, and with the units being all brand new and brand new parts, you just needed that one torque spec.

But if going back together rebuilding, parts are all different, and things have worn permanently(not in a bad way).

 

[Doppleganger]

Found this. Looks as fun as a prostrate exam.

http://www.selectric.org/manuals/sag800/

 

[Keith Seymore]

Found this. Looks as fun as a prostrate exam.

http://www.selectric.org/manuals/sag800/

Adjustment is shown on page 6.

Rotating torques are: "preload" by adjusting the big nut until it takes 10-12 in lbs to rotate the input shaft, and adjust the small set screw/lock nut until it takes 18-20 in lbs with gear on center. As mentioned in Post #2 of this thread.

K

 

[Keith Seymore]

My question is: how did the factory do these in a mass production sort of way? Wasn't like they had a steering setup to test every one of them on. Is there a spec torque to tighten these things to?

THX

They had a machine that could rotate the input shaft and make the adjustments at the same time. At a rate of about 100 units per hour.

Same thing with rear axle pinion nut preload: there was a machine that rotated the pinion while torqueing the nut to get the right rotating torque/crush sleeve preload. That's why the crush sleeve exists.

K

 

[Doppleganger]

They had a machine that could rotate the input shaft and make the adjustments at the same time. At a rate of about 100 units per hour.

Same thing with rear axle pinion nut preload: there was a machine that rotated the pinion while torqueing the nut to get the right rotating torque/crush sleeve preload. That's why the crush sleeve exists.

K

Thanks Keith. I knew you would know.

The video looks very helpful but the part about scribing the nut to get it back to its original position looked a tad cheesy to me. Just want to do this once and right.