Fixing a jimmy rigged electrical system

[AuroraGirl]

Sorry for the late reply. I feel bad having everyine here ready to help but i was waiting on a part and working all day. I got the pump wires off of the dist. I just got the fusible link and fuses so tomorrow I'll install those and then go thorguh and look into what everyoine else is saying. I my paycheck dos go through tommrow I might pick up a pump as well,

Did we determine what your fuel tank has on top for sender/vent/return as in, do we know you have all three? if so, you should pick up a locally availanble "for now" fuel pump IF at that point you will be quickly wrapping up electrical repair and need to be shooting around. if you arent there, i wouldnt maybe Hold that money, dont spend, but keep on those electricals and get her running

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[SirRobyn0]

That is the direction we have been moving since the first page of posts. Get it to spin, get spark, get it to start, Then he can deal with the pump and go through the electrical connections. Hopefully before he starts driving it. I asked him to cut the pump wire at the Dist a few pages back and was going to advise like you mentioned, put temp leads on the pump to get the truck started. (still working in that direction). After the trouble shooting stage, when it starts then he can do the clean up work before he drives it.

At no point in this adventure was I suggesting he get his spark back and drive it as shown in the pictures. LOL By the look of his sentences and logic I do believe he has enough common sense to know this also.

Was not my intention to come off as scolding,(sorry) you made a very important point and are 100% correct. I was trying not to distract him with step 5 before we complete steps one through three.

I did not take it that way at all. And completely agree with your statement "I was trying not to distract him with step 5 before we complete steps one through three". Unfortunately someone had to come along and post, a dramatic truck fire picture without really being helpful (maybe even distracting to the steps we are currently on) and at that point I felt that I should say something to clarify it's important to fix it from a safety stand point, but I don't want him to think he needs to drop everything to do it before it even cranks over. As I felt gotyourgoat was implying.

 

[SirRobyn0]

This sentence is the reason I have been focusing on getting the starter to turn and then spark, before focusing on the very obvious non safe fuel pump issue. I just hope WE are not overwhelming him with multiple people asking questions, and pulling him in different directions. I intended to walk him through the electrical part of the problem and then have SirRobyn0 and or gotyourgoat advise him on best options on the fuel pump. I'm open to suggestions if you guys have a better idea?

I completely agree with this course of action and is one of the reasons I have not said much about the electrical other than to point out a few observations. That was actually the intent of my post at 12:33 today, was to steer the conversation back around to the electrical part.

Let's carry on.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Sorry for the late reply. I feel bad having everyine here ready to help but i was waiting on a part and working all day. I got the pump wires off of the dist. I just got the fusible link and fuses so tomorrow I'll install those and then go thorguh and look into what everyoine else is saying. I my paycheck dos go through tommrow I might pick up a pump as well,

You are fine. This is your project, you do it at your pace. When someone posts to this thread we get a notification just like you do. I have job to, but am lucky enough most days to have a least a little time to check in on the forums, but not always.

 

[jfrancom101]

Ok, latest upatde. I got the fusible link installed. I got the fuses installed. Still no power to the ignition. I ran a test and with a jumpoer cable i went to the solinoid on top that we were looking at. I jumped power to the other side and it turns out that it goes straight to the starter motor. Not to the solenoid on the starter motor, to the starter motor itelf. So the way it is set up right now is totally bypassing the solenoid on the startmotor and using the one mounted to the engine compartment. I didn't check to see if we had lights on the ignition becuase I didn't really want to leave the engine cranking.

 

[WP29P4A]

Ok, latest upatde. I got the fusible link installed. I got the fuses installed. Still no power to the ignition. I ran a test and with a jumpoer cable i went to the solinoid on top that we were looking at. I jumped power to the other side and it turns out that it goes straight to the starter motor. Not to the solenoid on the starter motor, to the starter motor itelf. So the way it is set up right now is totally bypassing the solenoid on the startmotor and using the one mounted to the engine compartment. I didn't check to see if we had lights on the ignition becuase I didn't really want to leave the engine cranking.

Ok, so now it looks like the solenoid close to the fuel pump might have been a Mcguyver to get the starter working without replacing it? The best thing to do at this point is to make a simple diagram of the power system, both batteries, two Solenoids?(yes/no?), starter. Can you please make us a diagram of what you have, it doesn't have to be in color? Just something like the sample I included. It will make it much easier to get power back where it should be.

Will you please unplug the red wire, with the yellow crimp on connector that has black tape around it, connected to the Distributor, I want to know if it is crimped tight or held on with the tape.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Ok, latest upatde. I got the fusible link installed. I got the fuses installed. Still no power to the ignition. I ran a test and with a jumpoer cable i went to the solinoid on top that we were looking at. I jumped power to the other side and it turns out that it goes straight to the starter motor. Not to the solenoid on the starter motor, to the starter motor itelf. So the way it is set up right now is totally bypassing the solenoid on the startmotor and using the one mounted to the engine compartment. I didn't check to see if we had lights on the ignition becuase I didn't really want to leave the engine cranking.

I don't wanna step on @WP29P4A 's toes, but something is wrong with what you are saying. Part of the job of the solenoid on these starters is to engage (push) the starter gear into the flywheel. If that were bypassed it would never engage, or am I misunderstanding?

 

[WP29P4A]

I don't wanna step on @WP29P4A 's toes, but something is wrong with what you are saying. Part of the job of the solenoid on these starters is to engage (push) the starter gear into the flywheel. If that were bypassed it would never engage, or am I misunderstanding?

Good point, thinking......

We need pictures.

I don't recall ever taking one apart before. I know the separate solenoid/relay is used to switch high amperage loads. I just don't know if the one attached to the starter is also just for switching or if it also pushes out the starter gear.

Someone onsite has to know this?

 

[SirRobyn0]

Good point, thinking......

We need pictures.

I don't recall ever taking one apart before. I know the separate solenoid/relay is used to switch high amperage loads. I just don't know if the one attached to the starter is also just for switching or if it also pushes out the starter gear.

Someone onsite has to know this?

Agreed pictures would help.

Out of my reference material. See the red circle? Inside that is the plunger, return spring and forks which push the starter gear into the flywheel.

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[SirRobyn0]

Back in the old days when labor at the shop was a lot cheaper, we'd sometimes replace solenoids, rather than the entire starter, which is the only reason I knew.

 

[WP29P4A]

Agreed pictures would help.

Out of my reference material. See the red circle? Inside that is the plunger, return spring and forks which push the starter gear into the flywheel.

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This diagram seems to show that it is not possible to bypass the onboard solenoid and use an external one.

 

[WP29P4A]

Back in the old days when labor at the shop was a lot cheaper, we'd sometimes replace solenoids, rather than the entire starter, which is the only reason I knew.

Back in the old days when labor at the shop was a lot cheaper, we'd sometimes replace solenoids, rather than the entire starter, which is the only reason I knew.

Is it possible that the starter has a short between the main terminal and the switch/trigger terminal, so as soon as you put power to the main terminal, it spins? Only reason I can think of to have it wired the way Jfran101 mentioned. Can't imagine any other reason to connect it that way. Confirmation sould be where the wire from the key switch is connected.

 

[Grit dog]

OP the big + wire to the starter is always hot or should be. It’s not the external solenoid controlling starter engagement.

But you said it was cranking. That means there is a small wire that may come off the mystery solenoid to trigger the starter.
At this point this is as confusing for us as it is you.

 

[SirRobyn0]

OP the big + wire to the starter is always hot or should be. It’s not the external solenoid controlling starter engagement.

But you said it was cranking. That means there is a small wire that may come off the mystery solenoid to trigger the starter.
At this point this is as confusing for us as it is you.

I couldn't agree more, if he can get us pics that might be helpful.

 

[jfrancom101]

Agreed pictures would help.

Out of my reference material. See the red circle? Inside that is the plunger, return spring and forks which push the starter gear into the flywheel.

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Here is what it looks like on mine. What it looks like to me is a wire going from the main positive terminal to the solenoid to activate it. So if any power gets through the first solenoid (mounted on the frame of the truck) then it goes to the starter motor and then its rigged to automatically override the solenoid on the starter. So the ignition must not go to the starter, it's got to go to the solenoid on the frame I think.