Cutting down valve guides & reusing head bolts??

[OldBlueDually]

@HotRodPC I actually do not have the heads off of it yet, that will be done maybe this weekend and I will look to see if they are recessed now. This engine came from a nice 1969 Olds (started on fire on the highway). The 1982 I mention is the Oldsmobile the engine went into, probably in the mid 90's?? (ok I am going to get off track with a story now!). This 82 Olds was a 4 door delta88 and light **** brown in color which my buddy and I named "The Poop Ride". Single exhaust with a 36" glasspack so fairly mellow sound. Sometimes I drove this car to college (about 35 mile trip one way)....and sometimes I would also challenge people at stop lights.....when they got their ass kicked by the Poop Ride they were shocked. I had to be careful on take off because of the 2:41 rearend gears in the car and the torque of this fricken engine, it would literally blow the tires off, fun at times, but not when your trying to beat someone with it.

Anyhow, sorry to ramble, but that is where the 1982 came from. That engine then went from that car to my 51 Ford Truck, and I put the Olds rearend in my truck too. Drove the snot out of that too.

I hear you about RPM, I don't plan to push her much above 5k!

@Ricko1966 I will certainly keep new heads in mind (so much for budget build 'ay) because if it gets too costly it may be worth a changeout, but I do prefer to keep stock heads if I can. As for the cam I have for it, I don't want to sound ******* here, but I will NOT be putting any other cam in this engine except for the Thumpr I purchased for it. I told my dad the same thing. I want this cam not for performance, but for the sheer "thump" she will bring in this old beast. I am building the truck as a cruiser, and a bit of Hot Rod at the same time....and if you got a Hot Rod, you gotta have the damned Thump!

Oh crud, I just remembered I got a video of this exact 455 Olds running in my 51!!! This is with the side caps opened up (how I used to drive it to car shows and cruises...uh-oh another story! Coming home from the Back To The Fifties car show one year we (wife & I) were going through the twin cities with it in the evening and in a tunnel, I asked "wanna hear something cool" as I had the pipe caps off so I eased off the gas, reached down and shifted it down a gear (hurst floor shifter hooked to turbo 400) and proceeded to hammer it! Man she started screaming (truck was twisting & the sound about blew your eardrums) and other cars up in front of us were hitting their brakes....it was funny!!). Anyhow, you can tell she is a little cold in the video...

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I know the below is a 350 Rocket, but here is the "Thump" I am looking to achieve out of the BB Olds

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[HotRodPC]

There's nothing wrong with those C heads. I'd runn'em. Now if I had E heads, I'd be more to apt to source other heads maybe even aluminum. What people forget, Olds isn't cheap **** like SBC. Everything is expensive. That 51 sure didn't sounds like it has recessed valves. If you ran that engine in the 90's and didn't recess the valves then, I'd see no reason why they'd recess now. Some older heads are fine too just because it's better metal and steel. Olds was high quality back in those days. Look at them valves since the heads are off. If they're not recessed by now, I'd say go with'em as is and not worry about the seats.

Now here's what else to consider. Those seats may be good now. They were ran on leaded fuel and had a life all the way up to now. So those seats and the head material happen to work out and survived the unleaded fuel all these years. Now you take them in for a valve job and get the seats cut. You may have just had that hardened ring cut off and now after a valve job, they won't last for **** and will recess. So if they're working now, go with it' I'd do no more to those except maybe lap the valves at the most. Just may be one of those deals, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Leave it alone. In the future if you need a valve job, have the hardened seats installed.

 

[OldBlueDually]

@HotRodPC I can't agree with you more. You remind me of my dad with your comment "leave it alone", I get a chuckle. More than once I should have listened to him!!! I am a curious type though. I totally agree about the valves being ok, this engine made those vehicles haul ass and I ran it pretty hard a few times (found out my 51 Ford kingpins don't like high speeds), and the engine fires up without barely turning over.

Interesting what you stated about the materials used, as you are not the first to say that (once again, you sounded like my dad). My dad said the same thing you did, and I also read the same on the HAMB website too (also a member there) when guys were chatting about their Olds engines VS Chevy SB's, valve jobs specifically. When the heads are off I will check them over and I do have lapping compound and the tools so I can easily enough do it.

My dad used to do a lot of valve jobs on all sorts of vehicles (he is a retired 35 year GM mechanic) and he ended up getting the valve grinder & accessories when the company he worked for upgraded their equipment to newer stuff (nothing wrong with the old, so dad took that stuff). The dam thing weighs a ton, but works like new. Will probably use this on my Flathead V8 build for my truck.

Getting excited to get this engine done. Plan to get these headers for it, and also a pair of electric cutouts for the pipes to also come out behind the front tires (the Hot Rod part I mentioned earlier ).

With what I have learned from you guys in this discussion, and talking with my dad I feel a lot better about keeping the budget on this engine, and still having a hell of a lot of fun with it.

 

[Ricko1966]

Ad you don't really want to wind them up either. Consider 6000 rpm your red line. The occasional 6500 rev probably won't hurt but their rotating assembly is so heavy, they will come apart at high rpm if you don't do things like stud and girdle the mains and such.

I'm glad you said it, I wanted to but didnt want to start arguments.

 

[OldBlueDually]

I'm glad you said it, I wanted to but didnt want to start arguments.

I totally agree, in fact I feel that is even a bit much for it, unless I had it tore down to nothing & had it built to the hills from fresh...but not right now

 

[Vbb199]

I rebuilt a 429 ford with used head bolts than proceeded to drive it like a high school kid for 3 years and never had a problem. Sold it to a neighbor who still drives it. Food for thought

Last time i did heads (my 4.3), i reused them..... been running the piss out of that shitbox.

However, i did proper deck and head prep with scrapers, then honing stones to find any potential high spots, then finally alcohol and a clean rag to have nice, blemish free surfaces, then torqued them all 3 times in the proper order, etc.


No leaks...... been beating that 4.3 like a red headed step child.


The lore and mystery behind reusing them is they can stretch, then you run them back in a blind hole and they dont actually seal the head when torqued.....


The secret? Grind off 1/8-1/4" off the botton of them all, and rechamfer them to account for stretching.


And like he said up there, if theres visible stretching... toss it.

 

[HotRodPC]

I'm glad you said it, I wanted to but didnt want to start arguments.

Yep, cuz you know there's always that guy that spun one 7200 all the time and never had a problem. It's just not wise in a BBO unless you've spent the big money. They're stump pulling engines but they do make all their power at the bottom end and into mid range right out of the box.

 

[Ricko1966]

Yep, cuz you know there's always that guy that spun one 7200 all the time and never had a problem. It's just not wise in a BBO unless you've spent the big money. They're stump pulling engines but they do make all their power at the bottom end and into mid range right out of the box.

And geez they got so much, without spinning them hard.

 

[HotRodPC]

And geez they got so much, without spinning them hard.

They're torque monsters for sure. I think a BBO would probably make about the best truck engine in their stock form. They'd make great tow engines if you're pulling a car trailer or boat. They're not all that bad on MPG either considering the cubes. It is hard to keep your foot out of them though. When you take off and feel that torque you can't help it.

I wished I'd had bought it from her but the girl next door had a 68 Delta 88 2 door with a 455 in it. I drove that thing every chance I got. The Turbo 400 went **** up in it and she never told me. One day I see a tow truck hauling it off. Later that day I asked, what happen to your car, you know you could have come over and I'd have looked at it. She said the transmission was bad. So I then asked what trans shop are you having fix it? She said it's not going to the shop, it's to expensive to fix so I sold it to Ecology Center (A pull a part type yard). I was so pist. Now that was in the mid 80's, but even still she got $75 for the car.

 

[OldBlueDually]

And geez they got so much, without spinning them hard.

That they do. Even with the 2:41 gearing in that '82 Olds my dad put it in if you were hot rodding it a bit from a stop you had to be careful. It seemed the engine did not care what the rearend gears were, if you wanted to smoke tires the engine would just do it. If you got on it just right to keep traction, holy balls that was fun just getting pressed hard into the seats!

They're torque monsters for sure. I think a BBO would probably make about the best truck engine in their stock form. They'd make great tow engines if you're pulling a car trailer or boat. They're not all that bad on MPG either considering the cubes. It is hard to keep your foot out of them though. When you take off and feel that torque you can't help it.

I wished I'd had bought it from her but the girl next door had a 68 Delta 88 2 door with a 455 in it. I drove that thing every chance I got. The Turbo 400 went **** up in it and she never told me. One day I see a tow truck hauling it off. Later that day I asked, what happen to your car, you know you could have come over and I'd have looked at it. She said the transmission was bad. So I then asked what trans shop are you having fix it? She said it's not going to the shop, it's to expensive to fix so I sold it to Ecology Center (A pull a part type yard). I was so pist. Now that was in the mid 80's, but even still she got $75 for the car.

Oh man, now that just plain old sucks!!!!

 

[OldBlueDually]

@HotRodPC @Ricko1966 Here are a few pics of the heads, just got them off tonight. They look pretty damned nice! Valves and seats after removing them have that nice sealed ring around them, not tons of play in the stems.

Our oldest (10 yrs old) came out and said "daddy I want to help" so I had her removing head bolts after I busted them loose and had her helping me remove the valve springs. I see more $$$$ some year into a Hot Rod or some kind of build for her. She loves her papa's (my dad, her grandpa) 1950 Ford Truck & Flathead V8....so its cool. She cleaned out the engine valley for me and everything. Good helper!

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[HotRodPC]

@HotRodPC @Ricko1966 Here are a few pics of the heads, just got them off tonight. They look pretty damned nice! Valves and seats after removing them have that nice sealed ring around them, not tons of play in the stems.

Our oldest (10 yrs old) came out and said "daddy I want to help" so I had her removing head bolts after I busted them loose and had her helping me remove the valve springs. I see more $$$$ some year into a Hot Rod or some kind of build for her. She loves her papa's (my dad, her grandpa) 1950 Ford Truck & Flathead V8....so its cool. She cleaned out the engine valley for me and everything. Good helper!

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SEND IT !!! Nothing wrong with them valves as far as being recessed. You're good to go. I wouldn't even worry about it unless like I mentioned above, if you even have those seats cut for a valve job and they're aren't hardened seats, then I would have them installed.


BTW, Don't let them heads get away. One of the better stock sets to have. The other one better is like a unicorn and you'll pay mega biggo bucks for those. C's are good flowing and good compression ratio heads. Even with those dish pistons, you should be at 10:1 compression, maybe even 10.5:1.

 

[HotRodPC]

Here's another tib bit about BBO. That intake, if it's the original intake for that engine, no need to consider an Eddy Performer. The gain is very very minimal. All you really gain is lighter weight, maybe a little better throttle response when reving the engine but as far as hp/torque the gain is so minimal it's not even worth the cost of the gaskets for the swap let alone the cost of the intake. Now that could possibly be a different story if upgrading the cam but the stock intake flows just about as well as the Eddy Performer.

 

[OldBlueDually]

I agree, nothing wrong with it! I sent those same pictures to my dad and he said the same too, looks fine, run them! Upon first quick glance too the head bolts look nice, I did NOT inspect them much, was just pulling them and looking at them as they went into the bag! I use ziploc & other bags to mark everything! Makes my life so much easier when doing this stuff.

I don't plan to part with the heads at all, I will be using them for this engine. Even on a fresh rebuild I would use them. As for the intake, I will be using that intake for now also and if the intake is ever updated I would like to find a dual quad tunnel ram intake for it. Again, mostly for the looks & cool factor.

The exhaust manifolds on this engine are actually from what I see pretty nice flowing too! They seem a bit big for stock manifolds, but the ports and the inside of them have some pretty dang good room in there unlike other exhaust manifolds I have seen. I still plan to run block hugger style headers though.

 

[OldBlueDually]

My new roller chain, gears, valve stem oil seals, cutter & arbor will be here Monday